[aggie]

i got a flyer with a $200 bonus offer and special code. only restrictions listed were new accounts or at least a year of inactivity. i still asked them specifically about my account though. i got in writing that i qualify. so i deposit and now they say NO. looks very bad IMO, i played there 2 or 3 yrs ago and my experience of their service was much different. A+?

[Yoshi]

I love threads about the overrated "recreational" shops, keep em coming
Btw they have a "bonuses for losers only" policy, you have a lifetime + there?

[Bill Dozer]

Aggie,

What's the reason they are giving you? Shoot me the email saying you were approved and your account ID.

[aggie]

you are correct Yoshi, however this was a special deal not advertised on the site and rules were listed (as in my first post). and on top of it i inquired personally.

Bill, thanks, this is not about $200 from VIP, as i admit i wasn't expecting any bonuses from them ever. it's just the principles -- everyone says 'get it in writing' and now it looks like even this is not enough. anyway, i sent you an email.

[Chuck Sims]

Thanks for sharing aggie. SBR just makes themselves look bad to continue to rate VIP A+. What a joke. A sports bettor that has a clue is told to get lost. Degenerate losers are welcomed with open arms.

[Odds-Hunter]

Ive never had a good thing going with VIP. First they tell you, you cannot have reload bonuses. Then come the limit cuts and then they stripped me of over 20,000 in reward points. I kept the minimum in their only for the SBR MLB Contest

[TLD]

This is a bush league move that’s not uncommon at many books. VIP is particularly egregious; I’ve experienced it at one of their books at least twice.

It’s a marketing ploy. “Tell the customer whatever he needs to hear to deposit money. Later we’ll decide what our policies really entitle him to.”

It’s the same reason books send out mass mailings to all their customers with offers only some of their customers are eligible for. They know not everyone will read the fine print or inquire about their account specifically before depositing. They’ll think—logically enough—“This is an offer addressed to me by name, I’m accepting the offer by depositing funds, so I’m entitled to the bonus.”

VIP just takes it a step further. Even if you do know enough not to take their offers at face value but to inquire about your specific account, they’ll still routinely tell you you’re eligible, and then change that retroactively once the money has changed hands.

I think, though, that since you were smart enough to get it in writing, and since Bill is looking into it for you, there’s a good chance they’ll have to honor it (which they’ll present as doing you a big favor by bending their rules for you, and for which they’ll be warmly thanked and congratulated without deserving it).

As far as their rating goes, I’m not sure why bait and switch bonus tactics are good for “recreational” players while only disadvantaging “professional” players, but that seems to be the party line.

Middle of the pack family of books. Should have a middle of the pack grade.

[psycho44]

Originally Posted by Odds-Hunter

Ive never had a good thing going with VIP. First they tell you, you cannot have reload bonuses. Then come the limit cuts and then they stripped me of over 20,000 in reward points. I kept the minimum in their only for the SBR MLB Contest

like someone said, they have a "bonuses for losers only" policy which they termed a negative lifetime. If you've got a positive lifetime (withdrawal - deposit - bonuses) than you don't qualify for their loyalty rewards so you won't need the loyalty rewards.

I remembered answering their monthly quizes for 5000 reward points. They said I only got 1 answer right. I e-mailed telling them I'm 100% positive I got all 5 right. I searched for all the answers online and I know Buffalo made it to 3 superbowls in the 90's. They basically ignored my e-mail the 2nd time and didn't reward me but who cares.

[BuddyBear]

Originally Posted by Chuck Sims

Thanks for sharing aggie. SBR just makes themselves look bad to continue to rate VIP A+. What a joke. A sports bettor that has a clue is told to get lost. Degenerate losers are welcomed with open arms.

I haven't the faintest idea as to why VIP is an A+...not a clue how they have that A+ rating

[pags11]

VIP is definitely a book afraid of winners...too bad really because they have some nice features...

[chano]

I will tell you how they are rated A+.

When it comes time to renew there advertising here at SBR. They pay so much for A rating and another amount for A+. It's simple. If this were not true, then they should have been downgraded already.

[jjgold]

I beleive SBR is looking at VIP and some othjers and reviewing their ratings. I also beleive SBR does listen to posters as long as the complaints are legit. I do not know who actually owns this site but I am sure they are reading.

[aggie]

thanks for the support guys, although i do not think it was really needed as it was a clear cut case one can imagine... or i thought...

well, here is a shocker: my account was disabled and i was kicked out of VIP.

I disagreed with Bill that i should receive my funds back at their cost, because (as TLD nicely described above) i did not just deposit after receiving this special promo directly (as this in itself was not good enough). i have a confirmation in writing that my account specifically qualifies (exact quote was: "if you deposit right now and send the email you will be able to get it").

my thinking is that if an A+ (sic!) rated book cannot keep such a clear cut promise they can just keep my deposit on top of it and fade away.

in the end they dont even consider returning my funds back without a hassle.

[Yoshi]

omg...how is that possible, reading the VIP review it says its the perfect choice for all stack sized players who want the best bonuses, and...

[bigloser]

Originally Posted by Yoshi

omg...how is that possible, reading the VIP review it says its the perfect choice for all stack sized players who want the best bonuses, and...

You forgot to mention

"Managed by one of the industry's most talented and respected operators, the honorable Alistair Assheton, VIP enjoys an unequaled reputation of fairness and quality service. "

[Bill Dozer]

This is a bush league move that’s not uncommon at many books. VIP is particularly egregious; I’ve experienced it at one of their books at least twice. It’s a marketing ploy. “Tell the customer whatever he needs to hear to deposit money. Later we’ll decide what our policies really entitle him to. It’s the same reason books send out mass mailings to all their customers with offers only some of their customers are eligible for. They know not everyone will read the fine print or inquire about their account specifically before depositing. They’ll think—logically enough—“This is an offer addressed to me by name, I’m accepting the offer by depositing funds, so I’m entitled to the bonus.

Most books do blanket marketing unfortunately. It's like getting a credit card offer when you already have that card or don't stand a chance in hell of actually getting approved. Sometimes the offer isn't even from the book itself. At least the card offer gives the pre-approval BS line (Marketing departments should adopt this.)

But, as with any flyer, there is the fine print that terms and conditions apply. VIP has the policy of sending the player his funds back at no charge if they are mislead by marketing material. This would be costly if they were paying for miscellaneous charges daily while sending disgruntled gamblers back into the player pool.

VIP just takes it a step further. Even if you do know enough not to take their offers at face value but to inquire about your specific account, they’ll still routinely tell you you’re eligible, and then change that retroactively once the money has changed hands.
I'm all for spanking the book when they mess up but this is simply not true. It wouldn't be cost effective as I previously mentioned.

This is the first time I have seen a player be verbally approved only to later to be declined after the deposit. Apparently Aggie had a VIP managed book account closed earlier in the month and they already decided his play was not recreational. VIP believes the player knew the bonus stipulations and is only willing to pay for their error with the transfer costs.

[bigloser]

Originally Posted by Bill Dozer

[i]
This is the first time I have seen a player be verbally approved only to later to be declined after the deposit. Apparently Aggie had a VIP managed book account closed earlier in the month and they already decided his play was not recreational. VIP believes the player knew the bonus stipulations and is only willing to pay for their error with the transfer costs.

Im not sure about this ruling
1) It wasnt verbally approved , it was approved in writing
2) If they had already decided his play was not recreational, then why did they approve the bonus
3) And last but not least , he was aware of the bonus stipulations,VIP had confirmed them to him in writing, HE WAS ELIGIBLE.

[aggie]

my gameday account is apparently closed and i knew nothing about it. i did not login there for years, i'm sure it can be easily checked. what's more disturbing is that gameday sent me a flyer as well at the same time.

when i read more and more of the recent complaints i thought it was mostly exaggerated. my experience with VIP books was great at a time. i had allistair himself taking time to assure me all will be fine shortly, during DOS attacks in '03, where only a handful of people could login there. also receiving $25 or $50 bonuses just for spotting bad lines. and now all this for measly $200...?

[TLD]

VIP just takes it a step further. Even if you do know enough not to take their offers at face value but to inquire about your specific account, they’ll still routinely tell you you’re eligible, and then change that retroactively once the money has changed hands.
I'm all for spanking the book when they mess up but this is simply not true. It wouldn't be cost effective as I previously mentioned.


Appreciate your response Bill. All I can say is this exact thing happened to me twice, so I'm not just going by rumor or things I've read in forums. Those two experiences with this family of books made me a lot more of a stickler for getting things in writing. I learned the lesson that you can't trust what they tell you on the phone.

If now you also can't trust it when they put it in writing, then that reflects even more poorly on them.

[Revere14]

When it comes to financial stability, which is by far the most important quality in a sportsbook, they deserve the A+ rating.

They also have a generous affiliate program, so they get high marks there, although some people may see that as a bad thing as it can influence the objectivity of web site owners who want to steer players in their direction. Personally I see it as neutral, and just the sign of an aggressive marketing campaign. Since most people are not involved in affiliate marketing this has no direct effect on them and is essentially irrelevant.

Their software is has some good qualities that you don't find elsewhere, such as the option to automatically receive email confirmation whenever a bet is placed.

In almost every other way, they deserve very low ratings.

Instead of simply lowering the limits of so called "sharp" bettors, like many other books, they use dishonest methods to cheat them. Some examples of this are purposely putting the customer on hold to prevent them from getting their bet in, or changing the price as soon as the customer indicates which team they want to bet. Sometimes they will purposely set a price that is slightly off the rest of the market, but essentially will only take action on the side that is priced worse than every other book.

As a large, well funded operation who can afford to hire a competent linesman trained in risk management, it is a shame that they remain on the same level as the other bottom feeders in the industry with unoriginal offerings and a strictly enforced yet unwritten "Loser Only" motto.

Revere14

[wseitzjr]

Man was that the 100% match bonus? I used it monday and had no problem with the bonus, but I did have issues with my credit card deposit, so I had to use netteller, the bonus was only good till the 19th if I remember correctly

[wseitzjr]

I have been a member of vip for 5+ years, and have never had any issues with payouts or wagers...

[pags11]

VIP needs to clean it up a little bit, or they should be around an A- shop...definitely not an A+ book...

[beetman]

I'm a lifetime loser with VIP. I tried to bet a horse future the other day and was limited to a $4 bet!

[pags11]

VIP is such a joke...why is it that they have kept such a high rating with SBR?...I'd like to hear the justification...

[Chuck Sims]

When an operation has a 100% loser customer base, winners are quickly shown the door, it would hardly matter whether or not they are financially sound. To send money to a place that has no intention of keeping you as a customer if you do not continue to send them money is a head scratcher to me.

[pags11]

well said chuck...seems like the perfect gig to me...keep taking losing gambler's money and cut off the winners quickly...geez...

[bigloser]

Originally Posted by Bill Dozer

This is a bush league move that’s not uncommon at many books. VIP is particularly egregious; I’ve experienced it at one of their books at least twice. It’s a marketing ploy. “Tell the customer whatever he needs to hear to deposit money. Later we’ll decide what our policies really entitle him to. It’s the same reason books send out mass mailings to all their customers with offers only some of their customers are eligible for. They know not everyone will read the fine print or inquire about their account specifically before depositing. They’ll think—logically enough—“This is an offer addressed to me by name, I’m accepting the offer by depositing funds, so I’m entitled to the bonus.

Most books do blanket marketing unfortunately. It's like getting a credit card offer when you already have that card or don't stand a chance in hell of actually getting approved. Sometimes the offer isn't even from the book itself. At least the card offer gives the pre-approval BS line (Marketing departments should adopt this.)

But, as with any flyer, there is the fine print that terms and conditions apply. VIP has the policy of sending the player his funds back at no charge if they are mislead by marketing material. This would be costly if they were paying for miscellaneous charges daily while sending disgruntled gamblers back into the player pool.

VIP just takes it a step further. Even if you do know enough not to take their offers at face value but to inquire about your specific account, they’ll still routinely tell you you’re eligible, and then change that retroactively once the money has changed hands.
I'm all for spanking the book when they mess up but this is simply not true. It wouldn't be cost effective as I previously mentioned.

This is the first time I have seen a player be verbally approved only to later to be declined after the deposit. Apparently Aggie had a VIP managed book account closed earlier in the month and they already decided his play was not recreational. VIP believes the player knew the bonus stipulations and is only willing to pay for their error with the transfer costs.

Is this the best SBR can do ?