[MoneyLineDawg]

says the guy comparing a QB with a 70 QB rating his first 2 seasons to one who had a 98 passer rating his first 2 seasons

I did not compare shit, I just answered your stupid scenario.....QBs all progress at the same rate too, I guess? Some are great right off the bat, and some take some time, or is that not true?

My only argument is that Sanchez is not "complete garbage" (aka he is overall mediocre when you take everything into account- not just QBR).....I am not arguing him against Roethlisberger

Done arguing this shit......You have your opinion, and I have mine and we're not changing our stances obviously

[Onefreedm1nd]

Fuk no points?

[brahmabull117]

I did not compare shit, I just answered your stupid scenario.....QBs all progress at the same rate too, I guess? Some are great right off the bat, and some take some time, or is that not true?

My only argument is that Sanchez is not "complete garbage" (aka he is overall mediocre when you take everything into account- not just QBR).....I am not arguing him against Roethlisberger

Done arguing this shit......You have your opinion, and I have mine and we're not changing our stances obviously

The problem here is you have nothing supporting your opinion while I have a whole collection of facts supporting mine


You're fighting an impossible battle. There is no doubt who is right here

[MoneyLineDawg]

The problem here is you have nothing supporting your opinion while I have a whole collection of facts supporting mine


You're fighting an impossible battle. There is no doubt who is right here

Playoff performance and 4th quarter comebacks.....

QB Rating and QBR are not the end all, be all when it comes to evaluating a QB.......So you're wrong

There is no exact way to measure a QB.....I mean we could just list all of their qb ratings and go down the line forever, there will never be anymore arguments about qb's!

[crustyme]

wasnt it favres 3 int game against the dolphins the last game of the regular season that kept them out of the playoffs????

i think it was....im sure those werent his fault though!

that's certainly a simplistic way of looking at it.

but the real reason was jets lost 4 of their last 5, thanks in part to brett's awful play. an mri later revealed brett to have a torn biceps tendon, which may or may not have been a factor in his dismal play.

[Full Time Hobo]

Brah I cant believe you're still here.
I figured you would be broke by now.

And why does anyone even bother arguing with him?
There is absolutely no way he ever leaves his stance no matter how wrong he may be.

In the NFL all it ever usually comes down to is the OC and the OL.
Ben is the only qb that immediately comes to mind that doesn't need an amazing OL to be dominant.
I can't remember but I think Jets fired the OC so we'll see how Sanchez responds.

Fuk no points?

[crustyme]

No because Alex Smith played with better receivers and better offensive line. Put Cutler on San Fran and he would have had better numbers


Neither one of those 2 guys played with the same talent as Sanchez has had in his career

so qb rating doesn't apply to cutler since you have a built in excuse for why his was lower than alex smith.

[brahmabull117]

Playoff performance and 4th quarter comebacks.....

4th qrt comebacks are the most goddamn overrated stat in the history of mankind


Putting yourself into a gigantic hole with atrocious play in the first 3 quarters and then pulling out of that hole to turn an easy win into a very difficult win means nothing to me

QB Rating and QBR are not the end all, be all when it comes to evaluating a QB.......!

Great, what stat should we look at? Completion percentage? turnovers? Because nearly every stat says he's garbage


"he's a winner", Rex Grossman got the bears to the superbowl in 2006, was he a good QB? Or maybe it's just that excellent teams with talent everywhere can win in spite of a QB?

[brahmabull117]

so qb rating doesn't apply to cutler since you have a built in excuse for why his was lower than alex smith.

Jay Cutler has had a very respectable QB rating last 2 seasons... unlike Sanchez



and team talent is an "excuse", are you fukking kidding me? Your team talent has a huge impact on how good of stats a QB will put up. Look how much better Brady's stats were in 2007 with Moss on the team

[crustyme]

The problem here is you have nothing supporting your opinion while I have a whole collection of facts supporting mine


You're fighting an impossible battle. There is no doubt who is right here

you mean "facts" like how jets were 17th and not 20th in sacks allowed?

like how rodgers and sanchez sacks are identical?

like how sanchez was only sacked cause he couldn't read blitzes?

like how qbr is bullet proof?

like how qb rating is the be all end all yet you refuse to admit alex smith is better than jay cutler even though he has a higher rating?

[crustyme]

Jay Cutler has had a very respectable QB rating last 2 seasons... unlike Sanchez



and team talent is an "excuse", are you fukking kidding me? Your team talent has a huge impact on how good of stats a QB will put up. Look how much better Brady's stats were in 2007 with Moss on the team

so there's more to a qb rating than just the qb rating.

gotcha.

[MoneyLineDawg]

4th qrt comebacks are the most goddamn overrated stat in the history of mankind


Putting yourself into a gigantic hole with atrocious play in the first 3 quarters and then pulling out of that hole to turn an easy win into a very difficult win means nothing to me





Great, what stat should we look at? Completion percentage? turnovers? Because nearly every stat says he's garbage


"he's a winner", Rex Grossman got the bears to the superbowl in 2006, was he a good QB? Or maybe it's just that excellent teams with talent everywhere can win in spite of a QB?

Hey statboy, Tell me how a 24 year old QB with 26 Passing TD's, 6 rushing TD's, 18 int's, 3500 yards passing is "Complete garbage"

Just answer that.

[brahmabull117]

so there's more to a qb rating than just the qb rating.

I have maintained for this entire debate that QB rating has to be adjusted for the level of talent surrounding a player


the problem for your argument is that adjusting Sanchez for the talent around him makes him look even much worse. The Jets were top 5 in sacks allowed, running game and defense in 2010. How well did he perform then?


Even last year, they were several good to great QBs who were close to Sanchez's numbers/higher than Sanchez's number in sacks allowed but put up much much better numbers

[brahmabull117]

Hey statboy, Tell me how a 24 year old QB with 26 Passing TD's, 6 rushing TD's, 18 int's, 3500 yards passing is "Complete garbage"

Just answer that.

You understand it's 2012 and not 1995 right?


26-18 TD to INT ratio is mediocre at best, 3500 yards on 543 attempts is garbage, 56 % completion percentage is garbage

[MoneyLineDawg]

You understand it's 2012 and not 1995 right?


26-18 TD to INT ratio is mediocre at best, 3500 yards on 543 attempts is garbage, 56 % completion percentage is garbage

Completion percentage is overrated as fukk and coincidentally is a HUGE part of QB Rating and QBR....Which is why Sanchez has such a bad rating in this

26:18, but 6 rushing td's aren't part of Sanchez? And you said it yourself "mediocre"

Hey Brahma, tell me how great qb rating is here:

A:

Completions: 352 (58.3%)
Attempts: 604 (7.6 YPA)
Yards: 4593
Touchdowns: 28
Interceptions: 2
QB Rating: 96.4

B:

Completions: 357 (67.6%)
Attempts: 528 (8.1 YPA)
Yards: 4280
Touchdowns: 33
Interceptions: 17
QB Rating: 99.6

[brahmabull117]

Completion percentage is overrated as fukk and coincidentally is a HUGE part of QB Rating and QBR....Which is why Sanchez has such a bad rating in this

False, his rating is so bad also because his INT-TD ratio is so mediocre and because he averaged a pathetic 6.40 yards per attempt



Also I disregarded your nonsensical comparison because it proves absolutely nothing. INTs and completion percentage are both equally huge - incompletions put your team in a difficult long and distance downs while INTs often times hurt your team in scoring chances or put your opponent into scoring position

[crustyme]

I have maintained for this entire debate that QB rating has to be adjusted for the level of talent surrounding a player


the problem for your argument is that adjusting Sanchez for the talent around him makes him look even much worse. The Jets were top 5 in sacks allowed, running game and defense in 2010. How well did he perform then?


Even last year, they were several good to great QBs who were close to Sanchez's numbers/higher than Sanchez's number in sacks allowed but put up much much better numbers

maybe it should be adjusted, but it's not.

did sanchez qb rating go up when his wrs dropped 3rd most passes in afc in 2010? did sanchez qb rating go up when holmes dropped a wide open touchdown last season? did sanchez qb rating go up when his wrs turned the ball over on fluke plays that penalized him with underserved ints? of course not, they all made it go down.

so qb rating doesn't tell the whole story, does it?

glad you finally admit it.

[brahmabull117]

did sanchez qb rating go up when his wrs dropped 3rd most passes in afc in 2010? did sanchez qb rating go up when holmes dropped a wide open touchdown last season? did sanchez qb rating go up when his wrs turned the ball over on fluke plays that penalized him with underserved ints? of course not, they all made it go down.

yea because NONE of these things ever happen for anybody else right?



How many times were you dropped on your head as a child?

[MoneyLineDawg]

False, his rating is so bad also because his INT-TD ratio is so mediocre and because he averaged a pathetic 6.40 yards per attempt



Also I disregarded your nonsensical comparison because it proves absolutely nothing. INTs and completion percentage are both equally huge - incompletions put your team in a difficult long and distance downs while INTs often times hurt your team in scoring chances or put your opponent into scoring position

Yards per attempt have a lot to do with your offensive scheme......your playcalls, and your wr's........Jets had ZERO legitimate deep threats, didn't try to even run an intermediate or deep passing game, o-line breakdowns all over the place, etc........

3rd down completions for first downs are way more important than 3rd and 10 completions of 5 yards, but completion percentage doesn't tell the whole story

[brahmabull117]

Yards per attempt have a lot to do with your offensive scheme......your playcalls, and your wr's........

Then there is absolutely no reason for him not to have like a 70% completion percentage if he's just doing short throws all game


"he is not an accurate short pass QB" is a fukking retarded excuse. If you can't complete 5 yard slants and drag routes with a high level of accuracy in the NFL, you should not be in the league

[crustyme]

yea because NONE of these things ever happen for anybody else right?



How many times were you dropped on your head as a child?

im sure they have, but i doubt every team was 3rd in the conf in dropped passes.

[MoneyLineDawg]

Then there is absolutely no reason for him not to have like a 70% completion percentage if he's just doing short throws all game


"he is not an accurate short pass QB" is a fukking retarded excuse. If you can't complete 5 yard slants and drag routes with a high level of accuracy in the NFL, you should not be in the league

Watch the games....Show me all of the separation Plaxico Buress got on these short passes.....please show me

Show me Holmes NOT dogging all of his quick slants, show me Holmes not running lazy routes

Show me the rest of the great receivers (who exactly) consistently getting open

Show me the O-line holding up on a consistent basis

Chad Pennington, again, is 1st or 2nd all time in completion percentage, and he never made it out of the divisional round of the playoffs......It doesn't mean jackshit when you don't take any chances downfield and complete 3rd and long passes short of the sticks all the time

[brahmabull117]

im sure they have, but i doubt every team was 3rd in the conf in dropped passes.

they were average last year in dropped passes, stop making up nonsense fukktard

[brahmabull117]

Watch the games....Show me all of the separation Plaxico Buress got on these short passes.....please show me

Show me Holmes NOT dogging all of his quick slants, show me Holmes not running lazy routes

Show me the rest of the great receivers (who exactly) consistently getting open

Show me some other people who consider the jets receiving core to be anything except above average. I don't care if you feel that the WRs did not perform well last year, there is nearly nobody who agrees with you

Show me the O-line holding up on a consistent basis

Slightly below average last year, top 5 the 2 years before

Sanchez was awful all 3 seasons regardless

Chad Pennington, again, is 1st or 2nd all time in completion percentage, and he made it out of the divisional round of the playoffs......It doesn't mean jackshit when you don't take any chances downfield and complete 3rd and long passes short of the sticks all the time

Chad Pennington never played with a top 5 defense/running game like Sanchez played his first 2 seasons in his career


Football is a TEAM FUKKING SPORT, when are you going to understand that? Trent Dilfer has as many superbowls as Peyton Manning. Are they equivalent Qbs?

[crustyme]

they were average last year in dropped passes, stop making up nonsense fukktard

6th in conf last season and 3rd in 2010.

yeah, that's avg......

[MoneyLineDawg]

Show me some other people who consider the jets receiving core to be anything except above average. I don't care if you feel that the WRs did not perform well last year, there is nearly nobody who agrees with you





Slightly below average last year, top 5 the 2 years before

Sanchez was awful all 3 seasons regardless





Chad Pennington never played with a top 5 defense/running game like Sanchez played his first 2 seasons in his career


Football is a TEAM FUKKING SPORT, when are you going to understand that? Trent Dilfer has as many superbowls as Peyton Manning. Are they equivalent Qbs?

Pennington had a good Jets defense with a very good O-line and a hall of fame runningback moron......Coles, Chrebet, and Santana Moss is also a very good trio of WR's, all in their primes.....Just proves that QB rating/completion percentage is overrated as hell

No shit, football is a team sport.....Show me the last awful QB to win 4 road playoff games (even if on a great team or not) , he doesn't fukkin exist

[brahmabull117]

6th in conf last season and 3rd in 2010.

yeah, that's avg......

uh there are 15 teams in the conference, that's about average (technically 7.5 would be average, but 6 isn't too far removed from that)


Good god, how can somebody be so incredibly retarded?

[brahmabull117]

No shit, football is a team sport.....Show me the last awful QB to win 4 road playoff games (even if on a great team or not) , he doesn't fukkin exist

Hasn't Joe Flacco won a bunch of road games? He's another overrated scrub, although nowhere near as awful as Sancheese

[crustyme]

Show me some other people who consider the jets receiving core to be anything except above average. I don't care if you feel that the WRs did not perform well last year, there is nearly nobody who agrees with you





Slightly below average last year, top 5 the 2 years before

Sanchez was awful all 3 seasons regardless





Chad Pennington never played with a top 5 defense/running game like Sanchez played his first 2 seasons in his career


Football is a TEAM FUKKING SPORT, when are you going to understand that? Trent Dilfer has as many superbowls as Peyton Manning. Are they equivalent Qbs?

actually, 2004 jets were top 5 in pts allowed and rushing.... stupid fuk.

[crustyme]

uh there are 15 teams in the conference, that's about average (technically 7.5 would be average, but 6 isn't too far removed from that)


Good god, how can somebody be so incredibly retarded?

16, you stupid fuk.

gee, you're such an expert on nfl.

[bobby heenan]

[brahmabull117]

Okay i'm getting tired of going in circles here



Somebody please show me another QB who has performed worse with more talent around him than Sancheese. Somebody do this or I'm done responding to people's retarded posts

[MoneyLineDawg]

Okay i'm getting tired of going in circles here



Somebody please show me another QB who has performed worse with more talent around him than Sancheese. Somebody do this or I'm done responding to people's retarded posts

I'll do that once you show me the last "awful" QB to make it to back to back Conference championship games in his first 2 seasons, or even at all......

Better yet, find me the last "awful" QB to even make the playoffs in 2 out of his first 3 seasons in the NFL

Unless you're saying Sanchez is the only "awful" QB to do this in the history of the NFL

[crustyme]

sure, kerry/brahma.

run away like a lil bitch after being caught not knowing how many teams are in the league. and your other "facts" that got smashed to bits.

[brahmabull117]

sure, kerry/brahma.

run away like a lil bitch after being caught not knowing how many teams are in the league. and your other "facts" that got smashed to bits.

You've proven absolutely nothing in this thread, except for arguing over small details or semantics to try to distract people from the subject


Fact: Sanchez's numbers across the board place him in the bottom 5 of all starting QBs in the league over the last 3 seasons. You claim that there are other reasons for this except for his own performance but fail to provide anything even resembling sufficient factual evidence

Fact: Sanchez's top 5 worst numbers in the league, when considering the fact that he's played on 2 jets teams that were top 5 in the league in running, defense and OL as well as consistently playing on teams that have highly regarded WRs, easily make him a legitimate candidate for the worst starting quarterback in the league


arguing over small details doesn't change either one of those 2 things and you can put all the laughing smileys you want, it's not going to disguise the fact that you've provided nothing of substance in this thread