1. #141
    Jayvegas420
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    Quote Originally Posted by dj_destroyer View Post
    $923

    1/3/3 (9 tickets) $10 a ticket, $90 total
    74H Illinois

    25U 5.5 Islanders/Sens
    27H Wild
    75H Oregon State

    70T Wisconsin/Ohio State
    72V California
    28H Ducks

    1/1 (1 ticket) $5 a ticket, $5 total
    70V Wisconsin +11.5
    71H Manhattan -3.5
    72V California -1.5
    74H Illinois -5.5
    75H Oregon State -2.5

    K+2/3 (3 tickets) $5 a ticket, $15 total
    70T Wisconsin/Ohio State

    25U 5.5 Islanders/Sens
    72V California
    75H Oregon State
    So you wheeled Illinois at -5.5
    won that

    & you put that with your 1st group of 3 which included Oregon St. -5.5 which was a loser.

    Anyway, forget all that, I did the math & your payouts were accurate but I question the way you are carrying over your balance when you win.
    It appears that on Feb 26th you claimed your balance was $923 but, had you actually gone to your store & shelled out the $110 your new balance would be $813(on Feb.26th) & you would
    only have received back $145 for a realized profit of $35. This would bring your Feb. 27th balance to $958 not the $1045 you posted.
    You are making these bets, right? That's what you claim in the OP.
    Unless of course you inflating the payouts of your tickets, which we may never see, even though you claim to keep proline tickets from years ago.
    In post #88 you make it clear that you are in fact purchasing these tickets.
    Seems like a weird mistake to make if you were actually buying these tickets then cashing them the next day.
    You also made this error on the 23rd of Feb. when you claimed you went to your local store and purchased $75 worth of tickets but only
    added your profits onto Feb. 24th's balance.
    So, already I have a problem with your accounting skills & I truly believe you are too temperamental to succeed in the long run.

    Also on March 6th you posted a double wheel where you put arsenal & Philli Flyers, separately into 4 of each of those 5 picks & the only tie you hit was Dayton. You missed all the others so I don't understand how you balance on March 6th was $734 then on March 7th (having gone to the store to pay $50 for your tickets) your new balance was $759. So not only did you lose $50 that you din't disclose you arbitrarly awarded yourself another $25 for another $75 descrepency.

    HERE'S MY FAVOURITE. On March 9th correct me if I'm wrong but you didn't win any of your DOUBLE KEYS, you didnt hit you 4/5 point spread ticket. You hit the 3/4 point spread tickets & you actually only hit one of them. We know that 3 games on a point spread ticket pays 4 to 1. (Remember Proline calls it 5 to 1 but they don't give you back your bet) so you bet a $50 ticket that paid you $200 profit.($250 total)
    You said your balance on March 9th was $689 (which we already know is complete bullshit) and after going to the store to hand the clerk all that cash that day you would have had an actual balance of $324.
    So your balance on March 10th wasn't $674 like you said it was $574. ONCE AGAIN, you neglected to pay for your other fictiona....sorry LOSING tickets.


    In your silly little ONTARIO EDITION thread you are off by over $300. Trust me I know what the Proline tickets you bet paid, regardless of whether you can produce them or not.

    I hate to have to call you out like this but, if I am going to invest my money into someone I want to make sure he isn't fudging the numbers & calling it a mistake. I don't want him lying to me about whether or not he is actually paying for the plays he says he is making. It's also hard to tail someone who is a complete dick. You should stop lying to the forums & apologize to the members you insulted with your childish posts. I've gone into this type of detail with you because I have come to dislike you more than any other member here. It's not because youre giving people terrible strategy advice with proline. It's not even your sub par record & suspect picks. It's that you aren't red neck or a retard. Youre an educated, well-spoken guy who is still trying to screw people over by lying to them about how your flawed system with improperly crunched numbers can work for them. When it obviously wouldn't be working for you even if you had paid for these tickets.

    And by the way if you happen to disagree with any of my math, which i am sure you will, feel free to post the tickets you purchased from those dates. We all know you can't part with your precious proline tickets so, go dig 'em up!
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  2. #142
    DrIn$entive
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    Jay would make a good accountant or auditor.

    Maybe dj_destroyer is just using advanced Tout101 skills.

  3. #143
    hydrosmak
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    Buried!

  4. #144
    The Kraken
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  5. #145
    hels
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    /thread

    go into hiding OP

    Make sure you all nominate JayVegas420. I think if he gets 11 nominations sbr gives points. This probably changed and now like 111 but nominate anyways.

  6. #146
    dj_destroyer
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    LMAO

    You're such a plug, it hurts! You took this much time to try and bury me; but again, YOU are gonna come out looking like a sorry broke dikk fukk. Here we go:

    1. Let's get a few things clear. You don't know what an edge is. You don't know how to bet successfully. You don't know what rotations are. You're jealous that I bet more on one play than you have in your whole bankroll You don't know what BR management is. You don't know Kelly and you sure as hell don't know what positive expected value is. But now that we have that out of the way, lets carry on with these futile claims.

    2. Your first argument is mute... which is probably why you didn't even finish making it. You just moved on. First intelligent response ever from you.

    3. Total money returned on Feb. 26th amounted to $232, subtract the $110 invested leaving a pure profit of $122. Add that to bankroll of $923 for your next day total of $1045. I guess you need to be a mathematician like me to figure that one out.

    4. Next, you rant about how a small/simple mistake would eliminate all my credibility. Well I'm not perfect like you jayvegas so there will be mistakes but my logic is more sound than yours. This is how a typical day plays out: I set up tickets, go to the store and buy them, come home and post the tickets on here. The next day, when I go to cash, I get my original wager plus the profit in one payment. So when I go home, it would be an EASY and HONEST mistake if I were just to add the total amount to my bankroll. Not that I did this, but it would be a very genuine mistake. Again, you're just picking at straws.

    5. Your claim about March 6th is utterly retarded and shows just how much of a fukking mush you are. For some reason, you are insanely jealous of me and incestuously hateful in my threads... which is totally fine, I'm use to haters. But when you put so much time into a nice long post, you really should make sure you're not gonna look like a fukking goober. You even mentioned my winning ticket (Arsenal, Flyers, GW/Dayton tie) for $75.60 minus the $50 invested for a total profit on the day of $25. BR went from $734 to $759 correctly.

    6. This final point is actually your only good one. All in all, you're correct with your math. The problem came from the fact that I made an error in posting the plays. That day, there were three monster edges and one decent one. I simply put an extra $50 on the ticket that was made up of the three monster edges. This is the ticket that won. Because I posted wrong, I split the extra winnings in half and thought that would be fair to both myself and people reading/tailing. This means my bankroll is only a hundred off -- it is a hundred over what the posts in this thread should suggest and hundred less than what it actually is in reality.


    Here is my official offer to you, jayvegas420:
    Since you care so much about me and my business, I'm willing to lower my bankroll the $100 extra it is credited if you promise to never show face in any of my threads again. Let me know.


  7. #147
    dj_destroyer
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrIn$entive View Post
    Jay would make a good accountant or auditor.

    Maybe dj_destroyer is just using advanced Tout101 skills.
    Quote Originally Posted by hydrosmak View Post
    Buried!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Kraken View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hels View Post
    /thread

    go into hiding OP

    Make sure you all nominate JayVegas420. I think if he gets 11 nominations sbr gives points. This probably changed and now like 111 but nominate anyways.
    You guys look stupid for being spineless idiots. None of you thought to question jay's math? The guy doesn't even understand basic probability theory and you're jumping on his hate bandwagon without any due diligence? Fukking sheep I tell ya...

  8. #148
    DrIn$entive
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    Quote Originally Posted by dj_destroyer View Post
    The problem came from the fact that I made an error in posting the plays. That day, there were three monster edges and one decent one. I simply put an extra $50 on the ticket that was made up of the three monster edges. This is the ticket that won. Because I posted wrong, I split the extra winnings in half and thought that would be fair to both myself and people reading/tailing. This means my bankroll is only a hundred off -- it is a hundred over what the posts in this thread should suggest and hundred less than what it actually is in reality.
    No hard feelings at all, mistakes happen. Just used to seeing too many tracking threads where the OPs record or balance is inflated because the OP mistakenly forgot to post his "winning plays". Miraculously, there are never any losing plays mistakenly left out of the thread though.

    Good luck tonight.


  9. #149
    dj_destroyer
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    I fully understand that and I usually try to just track as posted... but in this case, I found that being $200 below my actual BR was significant enough that I needed to include it.

    If you check out my old threads over on Covers, I went like 2 years with only a couple mistakes. I pride myself on being meticulous, accountable, and transparent.

  10. #150
    slope99
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    hey dj, good thread man, i play proline also during football season and bet +ev.

    Simple question, why do you play multiple tickets??? Why not play only 1 ticket, the one with the higher edge?

  11. #151
    dj_destroyer
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    Quote Originally Posted by slope99 View Post
    hey dj, good thread man, i play proline also during football season and bet +ev.

    Simple question, why do you play multiple tickets??? Why not play only 1 ticket, the one with the higher edge?
    You should play all edges... if it's +EV then it's +EV. Hammer it.

  12. #152
    slope99
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    I'm thinking it has to do with bankroll management, expected growth, Kelly... Things I need to learn more about.

    Because just looking at +EV, it would make more sense to put all your money for the day on the highest +EV ticket.

  13. #153
    Jayvegas420
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    Youre just making stuff up
    in this example you use each key in 5 game parlays. You didnt win 5 games nor did you win 4 you only won 3 games.
    $734

    DK+1/5 (5 tickets) $10 a ticket, $50 total
    39H Arsenal
    4H Flyers

    56T George Washington/Dayton
    57T Richmond/Lasalle
    59T NC Charlotte/St. Josephs
    60H Princeton
    64T Eastern Washington/Montana

    You didnt win any tickets.

    All my math is right and yours is wrong. You cant provide tickets to prove any of your wins & I believe you are a complete fraud.
    I'm not going to waste any more time reading your made up numbers.
    Youre doing what I thought you would do. You are claiming to have won more on your tickets than would be possible & you dont have any of these tickets to prove the payouts.
    Youre counting tickets as winners when they are losers & when they win you dont pay for them!

    I'm not interested in listening to you try & cover your tracks. Youre system is retarded, your numbers are elementary & your attitude is deplorable.

    Tailing you could only be lucrative in small dosses at best.
    Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

  14. #154
    The Kraken
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    Quote Originally Posted by dj_destroyer View Post
    1. Let's get a few things clear. You don't know what an edge is. You don't know how to bet successfully. You don't know what rotations are. You're jealous that I bet more on one play than you have in your whole bankroll You don't know what BR management is. You don't know Kelly and you sure as hell don't know what positive expected value is. But now that we have that out of the way, lets carry on with these futile claims.
    The fact that you think anyone else couldn't possibly understand what Kelly or +ev is exposes just how hard those concepts were for you to comprehend. And those are two of the most basic concepts in sports betting, like chapter 1 bullshit.

    I remember about 3 or 4 months when you had your "ahha" moment. It was quite clear that you finally figured out EV and how to apply Kelly. It was obvious because you began posting about them incessantly, as if you had just found the fountain of youth. You started posting your "edges" It was like watching my third grade kid come home and say "daddy look, I know the times table".

    Reality is DJ, you aren't that smart. Congrats on finally figuring out something you should've figured out a long time ago. You're the kind of player books love. You think you understand how to beat them so you over bet your edge. You're like the kid that reads a "counting cards" book and then flies to Vegas thinking he can take down the casino.

  15. #155
    Jayvegas420
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    Quote Originally Posted by slope99 View Post
    I'm thinking it has to do with bankroll management, expected growth, Kelly... Things I need to learn more about.

    Because just looking at +EV, it would make more sense to put all your money for the day on the highest +EV ticket.
    If he really is choosing multiple +EV games, this is what he should be doing.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Kraken View Post

    The fact that you think anyone else couldn't possibly understand what Kelly or +ev is exposes just how hard those concepts were for you to comprehend. And those are two of the most basic concepts in sports betting, like chapter 1 bullshit.

    I remember about 3 or 4 months when you had your "ahha" moment. It was quite clear that you finally figured out EV and how to apply Kelly. It was obvious because you began posting about them incessantly, as if you had just found the fountain of youth. You started posting your "edges" It was like watching my third grade kid come home and say "daddy look, I know the times table".

    Reality is DJ, you aren't that smart. Congrats on finally figuring out something you should've figured out a long time ago. You're the kind of player books love. You think you understand how to beat them so you over bet your edge. You're like the kid that reads a "counting cards" book and then flies to Vegas thinking he can take down the casino.

    Kraken says it much better than I could have! It comforts him to think we're all ignorant & he's a genius. Until someone actually checks his work & he's exposed for the donk he is!

  16. #156
    itriedsohard
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    not sure who to believe, but i like it.

  17. #157
    fitguy67
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    I'd like to weigh in here as a character witness of sorts...so it's not just dj blowing his own horn

    The main point of this post is to address the allegation made that DJ is a "johnny come lately" to the family of ideas central to theories of long-term profitability in investment portfolios (probability/eV/edge/Kelly...etc).

    DJ has been applying Kelly bet-sizing and edge-quantification principles for at LEAST the last two and a half years. Go to covers and follow his "Destroy the Books" thread and see him methodically more-than-triple a tiny 1.6k account to 5k (in about 5 months)...then doubled it (in 6.5 months). I had the pleasure of following quite closely the full second phase, from 5k to 10, in its entirety...here's what i documented...i was just starting out in sport-investing at the time, and i tracked/analyzed quite closely

    *accounting was impeccably comprehensive (see below) and plays were all graded from 1% to the occasional 8% max play [avg play was in the 2-3% range] based on his quantification of "edge" that he referred to occasionally in his posts (which i, as a quantitatively-leaning newbie found intriguing, as it went beyond the usual vague assertions of simply having more "confidence" in a play)
    *winning % was just 49.93% but the yield was a nice 3.52%, because the typical play went off at +108.
    *variance was quite high...but the worst drawdown ever experienced over the haul was about 30% off its peak...the account was never at risk of ruin
    *i'm glad dj was the first capper i ever followed because he helped me develop an awareness that the name of the game is yield (netted/risked) and not just winning %...rather than the usual "wlp,$ (or units)" he reported daily: wlp, risked/returned/netted (much better in my opinion...and essential if varied bet sizes are employed)

    I know the accounting was accurate cuz i tracked it meticulously day by day over the full 196 days of the run.
    _______________

    What the hell, i just found the old sheet i tracked him with...here are the exact stats...

    Start date: Wed, Oct 13, 2010
    End date: Tue, Apr 21, 2011
    Duration: 196 days
    Start Balance: 5,000.00
    End Balance: 10,015.14
    Return vs. start capital: 100%
    Avg Compound Rate of Growth: 0.357%/day
    -----------------
    Number of Plays:735
    WLP: 339-340-56 (49.93% of 679 non-pushes)
    (Pushes-ignored) Risked: 142,426.89
    (Pushes-ignored) Returned: 147,442.03
    Pushes-ignored) Netted: 5,015.14
    (Pushes-ignored) Yield: 3.52%

    I also tabulated for each play an additional stat, what I call, "Targeted"...the amount one would net if the play won. Anyhow, the sum of (Pushes-ignored) Targeted was 154,134.17. I like keeping this stat because it allows one to instantly calculate (not just half-assed estimate) avg odds...in this case 2.08 decimal or the +108 I referred to above.

    _________________

    People may change, but the dj I got to know at covers was a solid value-hunting capper with meticulous record keeping and the patience to grind out impressive gains over the haul.
    Last edited by fitguy67; 03-29-12 at 10:43 PM.
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  18. #158
    Jayvegas420
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    I would like to put this all behind me.
    Water under the bridge as they say.
    I once heard someone say, "It takes a big man to cry."
    "It takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man."
    I dont know if this has anything to do with what we are arguing about here but...
    I can't let this go until DJBiPolar agrees to challenge me to a one week contest.
    If he wins I will stay out of all of threads plus ship him any amount of points he agrees to.
    If I win he will agree to end his Proline thread & never post another proline thread as long as he remains here.
    He'll refuse but, I look forward to exposing this non talent lottery player for the fraud he is!

  19. #159
    Jayvegas420
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    Challenge

  20. #160
    Jayvegas420
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    Where are you?
    You late night trolling grifter?

  21. #161
    dj_destroyer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayvegas420 View Post
    Youre just making stuff up
    in this example you use each key in 5 game parlays. You didnt win 5 games nor did you win 4 you only won 3 games.
    $734

    DK+1/5 (5 tickets) $10 a ticket, $50 total
    39H Arsenal
    4H Flyers

    56T George Washington/Dayton
    57T Richmond/Lasalle
    59T NC Charlotte/St. Josephs
    60H Princeton
    64T Eastern Washington/Montana

    You didnt win any tickets.
    1/5 means ONE of the plays is linked with the double key. See, your claim doesnt even come close to being legitimate because you dont even know what youre arguing. Maybe Ive been quick tempered and rude to you but you have shown no effort to try to learn. You just want to come in here and bash. Fitguy is a good example of what you should have done... I laid a basic groundwork and he took it to the next level himself.

  22. #162
    dj_destroyer
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Kraken View Post
    The fact that you think anyone else couldn't possibly understand what Kelly or +ev is exposes just how hard those concepts were for you to comprehend. And those are two of the most basic concepts in sports betting, like chapter 1 bullshit.

    I remember about 3 or 4 months when you had your "ahha" moment. It was quite clear that you finally figured out EV and how to apply Kelly. It was obvious because you began posting about them incessantly, as if you had just found the fountain of youth. You started posting your "edges" It was like watching my third grade kid come home and say "daddy look, I know the times table".

    Reality is DJ, you aren't that smart. Congrats on finally figuring out something you should've figured out a long time ago. You're the kind of player books love. You think you understand how to beat them so you over bet your edge. You're like the kid that reads a "counting cards" book and then flies to Vegas thinking he can take down the casino.
    1. I know they are basic concepts... and jayvegas still doesnt get them. Thats the point I was making. Not that I think theyre hard or make me bigtime. Everyone who ever lays a cent down should know them.

    2. Those threads were just titled that to grab peoples attention. Not because I suddenly encountered edges.

    3. I dont try to be anything Im not. Take it or leave it.

  23. #163
    dj_destroyer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayvegas420 View Post
    I would like to put this all behind me.
    Water under the bridge as they say.
    I once heard someone say, "It takes a big man to cry."
    "It takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man."
    I dont know if this has anything to do with what we are arguing about here but...
    I can't let this go until DJBiPolar agrees to challenge me to a one week contest.
    If he wins I will stay out of all of threads plus ship him any amount of points he agrees to.
    If I win he will agree to end his Proline thread & never post another proline thread as long as he remains here.
    He'll refuse but, I look forward to exposing this non talent lottery player for the fraud he is!
    Ill for sure accept this challenge.

  24. #164
    fitguy67
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    i suggest that a proline-ticket competition must run at least a month to have ANY meaning...and basics like setting a monthly ticket-purchasing maximum...and the size of any sbr prize to be transferred etc.

    get out the popcorn peeps!

  25. #165
    mrbmt123
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  26. #166
    dj_destroyer
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    Quote Originally Posted by fitguy67 View Post
    i suggest that a proline-ticket competition must run at least a month to have ANY meaning...and basics like setting a monthly ticket-purchasing maximum...and the size of any sbr prize to be transferred etc.

    get out the popcorn peeps!
    I didn't think this was a Proline challenge... but either way, a month is a much better sample.

  27. #167
    drfunkmaster
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    At least he is no bassmaster!!

  28. #168
    hels
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    It shouldn't be a proline contest, it should be a 'who can make the most money' contest. No one beats proline, dj has already been outed as a fraud and that is that.

    Betting college basketball is stupid as they have a 'tie' option at 5 points either way. You can't just pick a team to win or lose. Whatever, dj will keep posting losers yet his bankroll miraculously drastically increases or minimally decreases.

  29. #169
    Jayvegas420
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    I'm not interested in donating more of my money to the Canadian Government.
    Just an SBR Challenge will do.
    I set one of these up already so, I think I know how to initiate one.
    Unless you want to set it up.
    I dont think the amount of points is important since, you & I are not pros we can only ship each other 2 points per day.
    I dont have any requests except maybe that we do not include car racing & soccer.
    LMK which format youd like to use.

  30. #170
    dj_destroyer
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    Quote Originally Posted by hels View Post
    yet his bankroll miraculously drastically increases or minimally decreases.
    LOL -- well welcome to parlay betting you knob.

  31. #171
    dj_destroyer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayvegas420 View Post
    I'm not interested in donating more of my money to the Canadian Government.
    Just an SBR Challenge will do.
    I set one of these up already so, I think I know how to initiate one.
    Unless you want to set it up.
    I dont think the amount of points is important since, you & I are not pros we can only ship each other 2 points per day.
    I dont have any requests except maybe that we do not include car racing & soccer.
    LMK which format youd like to use.
    Include soccer... don't really care what format as long as it is legit.

  32. #172
    Jayvegas420
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    month long unlimited games per day
    1 unit per game max
    should we open to anyone who has posted in this thread?
    LMK

  33. #173
    fitguy67
    blessed be the cheesemakers
    fitguy67's Avatar Become A Pro!
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    establishing basic bet-configuration and bet-size guidelines is important so no claims down the road of "unfair"...as long everyone knows what play-types and bet-amounts are/are not kosher then we're ready to rumble (being a proline-based disagreement that fueled this, perhaps it should be a 3-team-plus parlay foundation, maybe using sbr-book's prices...but u guyz decide...while we plebians ready the popcorn)

  34. #174
    Jayvegas420
    Vegas Baby!
    Jayvegas420's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 03-09-11
    Posts: 28,148
    Betpoints: 15111

    I think FitGuy should set this up & decide the start time & also enter.
    !~
    Lets do this

  35. #175
    fitguy67
    blessed be the cheesemakers
    fitguy67's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 03-13-11
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    sorry Jay, i been away for a while...how bout a simple configuration...parlays only (3-team-min to 6-team-max...thus each parlay emulates a proline card...you may register up to, say, 10-max of these per day (this allows considerable flexibility for "round robin/6-of-seven" etc. type setups)...any parlays that you would be able to place using sbr sportsbook are kosher

    ...but there is one flat bet size, say $100 per parlay played...which is 1% out of a theoretical $10,000...if u crash before closing date, your out (no reloads)...plays must be posted with the exact Time of day (EST) and the exact SBR-sportbook price that would apply if you actually played it (always in "$100 to win $_________" format)...u must post any plays to qualify on a given day of course BEFORE the start of the first even included on any of your parlays

    28 calendar days'/4 calendar weeks...eg. commencing Monday, April 9/ending Sunday, May 6 inclusive (but if u guyz want to start earlier/later and agree to start April X...you'll end up on May (X-3)

    the plays may be fictitious, but the prize (1000 betpoints) is real...as real as betpoints can be anyhow

    it this takes off with just you two...1000points (about $70 street value) are transferable from loser to winner...if u realy want me to join in, i'll give it the old college try (dusting off my best dartboard)...in that case...the loser=3rd place pays the winner=1st place 1000 betpoints, with 2nd place declared a silver-medal push...

    if anyone else wants to join a 3-to-6team 28-day "parlay-a-thon"...then i guess i could come up with a prize structure (or maybe sbr already has some sort of facility to handle this)...

    Jay, i think u said u have some sort of direct experience of sbr's on-site facility for handling capping contests of this sort ...so maybe u should weigh in here...but my main concerns are
    *up to 10 flat "1% of starting roll" plays allowed daily
    *all plays must be available at sbr-sportsbook, and recorded exactly as if they were done using that
    *a precise start and end date ( i suggest 28 days)
    *i suggest it be a two-man contest cuz then 1000 will be won or lost directly from or to the guy u got the beef with...but i'm happy to tag along (and then i'll fight like hell to stay out of 3rd place, lol)

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