[seansports]

I made a prop bet with the pig that u3 Arizona Cardinals would score in the superbowl, and it was graded as a loss. Here is my chat transcript:

Welcome Sean, Please wait while we get you in contact with one of our representatives...

17:51:20 Debbie> Welcome to our Live Chat Service! How may I assist you?
sean> hello, regarding this bet: Feb 01, 2009 04:36 PM (04:42:02 AM) Writer:INETUSR Confirmation *
LOST STRAIGHT 650/500 $-650
14227. Over Arizona Players / Under Arizona Player Un 3 -130 ** Pro Ftbll ** (4-0)
Please tell me which 4 Arizona players scored in the superbowl?
17:52:29 Debbie> there were 4 players
17:52:38 Debbie> that scored in the superbowl
17:52:53 Debbie> there was a holding in the pittsburgh end zone
17:54:26 Debbie> 1st touch down 1 yd pass from Kurt Warner to Ben Patrick
17:54:48 Debbie> 2 Neil Rackers (kicker) additional point
17:55:20 Debbie> 3 Larry Fitzgerald 1yd pass
17:56:54 Debbie> 4 penalty on J. Hartwig which enforce in end zone for a safety
17:58:49 Debbie> are you there sir?
sean> Can you please quote the verbiage of the bet description as it appeared on your site? The wager ticket doesn't provide much information.
18:00:20 Debbie> one moment please
18:03:14 Debbie> I'm checking
18:03:23 Debbie> with the prop
18:03:29 Debbie> with a stage manager
sean> ok thanks
18:08:18 Debbie> I think this could take a few minutes
sean> that's fine
18:09:54 Debbie> ok
18:09:59 Debbie> the the verbiage
18:11:09 Debbie> Total number of Different Cardinals to Score
sean> is that all it said?
18:12:06 Debbie> yes
sean> ok, then "4 penalty on J. Hartwig which enforce in end zone for a safety" should not count towards this total, as he is not a Cardinal player and the bet said nothing about safeties counting towards the total.
18:13:18 Debbie> I'm sorry sir
18:13:33 Debbie> but it did count
sean> I know it did, but it was counted incorrectly.
sean> can you please show this to your prop manager?
18:17:02 Debbie> yes sir
18:17:09 Debbie> I will send him an email
18:17:34 Debbie> we should have an answer from him tomorrown
18:17:41 Debbie> morning I can send you an email
18:17:54 Debbie> as soon as I receive an answer from him
18:19:02 Debbie> is there anything else I can help you with?
sean> no, thank you for having him email me
sean> also please refer him to the sbr thread I created regarding this issue: Superbowl Prop Dispute - ThePig
18:20:35 Debbie> would be my placer
18:20:41 Debbie> anything else sir?
sean> no that is all. thanks

What do you think?

[SexyMit]

I think you got hosed...

[Wrigley]

Looks like their considering the safety score not done by a player, that the penalty gave the cards the score and not a player. How does the NFL score this in their stats does a player get credit for that safety?

[The HG]

I agree with you, hosed

[sickler]

Ask them to peruse the official game stats and show where an Arizona player is credited with "scoring" the safety.

[sickler]

Looks like their considering the safety score not done by a player, that the penalty gave the cards the score and not a player. How does the NFL score this in their stats does a player get credit for that safety?

You have it backwards. The book is saying an individual Arizona player scored the safety.

[Panic]

Ask them to tell you who would get credited for the 2 points if Big Ben had simply stepped out of bounds for the safety.

[onthewhat]

book is wrong here

[sickler]

Don't sweat it, seansports. This will get overturned.

I suppose ThePig will argue the player who was held is credited with the safety. That can be their only explanation, lame as it is.

[exstatman]

No Arizona player is credited with the safety according to NFL.com, which is normally cited as the official source by most books on prop bets. This is more like an own goal in soccer.

[Fiasco]

I had over 3 arizona players would score and at carib it was graded as a push (at first they graded as loss but next day my account was credited with the push)

[topgame85]

Don't know here considering it was a penalty think you should be paid if ben had been sacked in end zone think they would be right damn safties are complicating shit

[big joe 1212]

Even if he gets sacked for the safety, the player still does not get credited for scoring 2 points.
They are hosing you.
They are amateurs with props because they rarely have lines on them.
The Pig is a solid book, and I'm sure they will change it.
Let us know what happens here!

[AK]

Pig needs to correct this, Also they should consider paying true value on there parlays.

This is a C type book

[sickler]

Fill out a complaint with SBR, seansports. If ThePig doesn't regrade this, they deserve a downgrade.


For those who didn't watch the game or don't remember the play, it was an offensive holding call on Pitt in their own endzone, which is a safety. No Arizona player gets credited for that.

[Wrigley]

Sounds like you should be paid your money back sean this is one reason SBR hired The General PM him if they dont do you right

[sickler]

Seansports, since you're new and might not know your way around, here is the complaint form: http://www.sportsbookreview.com/Spor...Complaint.aspx

[The HG]

Let's ask the propmaster himself -

Justin7, if you were pricing out this prop (and you probably did) would you factor in "likelihood of a safety" in your pricing, as small as it may be?

[Justin7]

Let's ask the propmaster himself -

Justin7, if you were pricing out this prop (and you probably did) would you factor in "likelihood of a safety" in your pricing, as small as it may be?

It's so small, I'd barely consider it.

FYI, I received this complaint, and my first impression is that it should be a push. I'll be in contact with ThePig shortly.

[Justin7]

I think a much more interesting question would be... If Roethlesberger ran out of bounds in the end zone, would he count as "a Steeler player scoring"?

[big joe 1212]

Why dont they just put up disclaimers like everyone else does?
They should not take props if they dont know how to grade!

[Justin7]

Why dont they just put up disclaimers like everyone else does?
They should not take props if they dont know how to grade!

Props are like a landmine field for books. Even the best screw them up. The good ones fix it fast.

[sickler]

Props are like a landmine field for books. Even the best screw them up. The good ones fix it fast.

Well, ThePig sure didn't want to fix it fast. Didn't want to fix it at all. Argued with complainant that they were in the right.

They'll most likely do the right thing since SBR is now involved, but it begs the question: Are they trying to rip off players or do they have idiots grading wagers?

[The General]

The O lineman didn't score any points. All will be handled properly here.

Let the issue run course.

The Pig and Legendz will handle accordingly.

[sickler]

The O lineman didn't score any points. All will be handled properly here.

Let the issue run course.

The Pig and Legendz will handle accordingly.

Read again, General. The issue is did an Arizona defender get two points for the safety on the penalty.

[big joe 1212]

Ive been with Legendz and Pig for a long time and they have never graded anything incorrect on me!
And I can say that they are the only book who hasn't.

[The General]

My bad, same answer and solution. There is no stat for defenders scoring points on a safety is there? The team received 2 points.

[Justin7]

The player contacted me, and said ThePig corrected this before I could talk to the prop manager.

If anyone else bet this prop and had it graded a loser, please tell me or SBR.

[sickler]

Funny how clerk and manager huddle, still maintaining ThePig is right, but once SBR enters the fray (or mere mention of SBR) they have a change of reasoning. Would player have received the correction had he not gone public about this and continued to just argue with them by his lonesome?

Hmmmmmm

[Bill Dozer]

Funny how clerk and manager huddle, still maintaining ThePig is right, but once SBR enters the fray (or mere mention of SBR) they have a change of reasoning. Would player have received the correction had he not gone public about this and continued to just argue with them by his lonesome?

Hmmmmmm

He would have. If there is a misgraded bet, front line of CS will always have to defer to wagering mgr. responsible. Legendz routinely gives players the benefit of the doubt even when the player is not clearly pointing out an error.

Legendz asked us to share this yesterday:

In regards to the amount of time it took us to address this claim, we would like to clarify that the customer started the thread before contacting us to place his claim. Following is the end portion of the chat between the customer and our cs rep:

18:15:35 name> can you please show this to your prop manager?
18:17:02 Debbie> yes sir
18:17:09 Debbie> I will send him an email
18:17:34 Debbie> we should have an answer from him tomorrown
18:17:41 Debbie> morning I can send you an email
18:17:54 Debbie> as soon as I receive an answer from him
18:19:02 Debbie> is there anything else I can help you with?
18:19:16 name> no, thank you for having him email me
18:19:29 name> also please refer him to the sbr thread I created regarding this issue: Superbowl Prop Dispute - ThePig
18:20:35 Debbie> would be my placer
18:20:41 Debbie> anything else sir?
18:21:15 name> no that is all. thanks
18:21:24 Debbie> you' re welcome
18:21:29 Debbie> have a great day

As you can see, the player did not give us any time to contact our prop manager and investigate the matter. We at LegendZ.com and ThePig.com have always taken player complaints seriously and try to resolve them as quickly and efficiently as possible. The fact that this particular customer felt he needed to contact SBR immediately is regrettable. However, since the gaming industry is unfortunately plagued with less than honorable bookmakers, the customer’s reaction is understandable. We hope that our promptness in addressing his complaint will ease his mind as to what kind of a shop we are.

[sickler]

I was under the impression the clerk consulted with a manager during the chat with seansports.

Perhaps I was a bit harsh. Just looking out for fellow players.

No malice here, Pig.

[smarmy]

Seansports, since you're new and might not know your way around, here is the complaint form: http://www.sportsbookreview.com/Spor...Complaint.aspx

Sickler, pushing for Moddom! In a quiet, yet helpful way.

Nicely done.

[sickler]

Sickler, pushing for Moddom! In a quiet, yet helpful way.

Nicely done.

Yeah blasting one of the sponsors oughta do it.