[JoshW]

Winning bet that wasn't
GOLF fan Alan Jones thought his luck was in when he correctly bet on the first three finishers in The Open golf championship at the weekend.

But his excitement turned to anger and frustration when the bookies refused to pay out.

Mr Jones had placed the 'tricast' wager as a member of a syndicate for the Three Pigeons pub golfing society.
The men place regular bets and save the winnings for a golfing fun day for their families, so they were livid when Ladbrokes staff in Banbury backed off and refused to honour the bet.

On Monday they manned a picket outside the shop in North Bar and say they will never use the bookmaker again. They are also appealing against Ladbrokes's decision.

Ladbrokes, for its part, says the bet should never have been accepted and admitted it was a mistake by an inexperienced member of staff.

Mr Jones, who paid the £6 stake and held the ticket, said they expected to win several hundreds of pounds after Tiger Woods won with Chris DiMarco second and Ernie Els in third place at the end of play on Sunday afternoon.
"When they came in in those positions we were jumping with joy in the pub. We'd worked out that with the three accumulated bets, a double and a treble we should have won at least £2,500 without any other dividend.
"But when I went to the betting office on Monday they refused to honour it because they said the Banbury shop shouldn't have accepted the bet. But the cashier had worked out the odds on each player and filled the ticket out for me. In my eyes that was a contract. I got a call from the regional office and they offered me £20 which was a complete insult."
Mr Jones of Alma Road, Banbury, and on Monday some of the society's members collected signatures from customers who agreed that the bookies should pay out.

Ladbrokes upped their settlement offer to £50 and then £86 but the group refused.

Ladbrokes spokesman Robin Hutchison said the blunder was down to an inexperienced cashier and described the dispute as a 'massive customer relations problem'.

He said: "This man put on a bet that wasn't a bet.
"He should never have been able to put it on.
"We don't take tricast bets for golf at any time and nor does any other bookmaker. They are for horse and greyhound racing where the customer bets on the first three placings in the race.

"It was accepted by an inexperienced member of staff who should have been briefed that there is no tricast or forecast in golf. We are investigating how it happened."
Mr Hutchison said the company had apologised to Mr Jones and offered him £86 – the amount he would have won in a treble wager – which was more than the normal tricast payout for a horse race.

He pointed out that Mr Jones had placed the bet on Sunday afternoon, close to the end of the contest, and bets were not taken after a competition had begun.
"Mistakes do happen but I'm afraid he's not quite playing with a straight bat," he said.

But he added: "If someone had helped me work out the odds and gave me the ticket I'd be upset too. That's why we've got a massive customer relations problem. But I'm not sure what else we can do.

"I'm sorry he's upset and I'm sorry he's had poor customer service. We have tried to settle it but he's refusing."
Mr Jones said: "We are not accepting their offer. We're appealing through the Independent Betting Arbitration Service. We have nothing to lose but they are losing every day. None of us will ever go back into that bookie's."
The arbitration service will ask Ladbrokes for its version of events and an independent panel will make a judgment on what award, if any, should be made.
Mr Hutchison said he was confident the service would find in Ladbrokes's favour.

[JoshW]

Granted in reading it over again, I see he made the bet during the 4th round, so I don't feel as bad for him. Still I think they should pay it out.

I just see it more of an example of what I deal with, when dealing with European books, they just don't care that much for players. They will write in a provision that they can essetially do whatever they want no matter the rules and then they actually do that.

IBAS becomes meaningless, because they just agree the book rules say that they can do whatever they want.

[Seattle Slew]

The fact that Ladbrookes is admiting a public relations problem, plus upping their original offer, shows me they think they might lose this in court. I think the guy has a great case. Not his fault the worker messed up. If the bet isn't allowed, how does it go through thir system?

[Chuck Sims]

Ladbrokes has zero chance of losing. IBAS is a joke.

The player does not have a bet. There is no trifecta betting in golf. At least not when the final round is almost over and the top 3 finishers in order is pretty clear. I would rule in favor for the book.

[scottyy11]

what do u guys think this would payout? doesnt seem like the odds would be that big if it was made in the 4th round

[JoshW]

I agree Scottyy11, more and more looks like this guy was not looking to take a shot, but he had to know odds are wrong. I view it as more like one more case were Ladbrokes doesn't honor bets. If this was a one time thing, I could feel a little more for them, as it is, just one more sign that they will act how they want.

[poolstag]

I wouldn't usually defend a bookie ... but ... in this case, I can't really blame Ladbrokes for refusing to pay out the bet.

This was a ridiculous bet to have tried to place. You CAN'T place tricast bets on a golf tournament. Certainly not when the final round is almost over!!!!

The clerk wasn't given proper training, and Ladbrokes are clearly guilty for that.

You get the impression, though, that the guy placing the bet probably tried to take advantage of this kid's naivety.

There are lots of examples of bookies screwing their customers but this isn't really one of them.

[Santo]

It was made in the 4th round, at pre-tournament odds (Hence why it pays out £2500), on a bet that doesn't exist..

Hardly a screwjob..

[althelegend]

IBAS usually finds in favour of the bookie anyway. It is hard luck on the chap but he's going to lose. Should have accepted the £86.

[Illusion]

Originally Posted by althelegend

IBAS usually finds in favour of the bookie anyway. It is hard luck on the chap but he's going to lose. Should have accepted the £86.

Welcome to SBR al.

[Willie Bee]

Originally Posted by althelegend

Should have accepted the £86.

Believe you're right, Al, and welcome to SBR. If they made this bet prior to the tourney, or at least before Round 3, and Ladbrokes didn't discover their mistake, I'd have a little pity for them. Should have taken the 86 quid.

[JoshW]

BetonSports is an IBAS. Wonder if anyone has submitted a complaint yet. They have virtually no power, but would be interesting how they would respond. Likely something like: bookmaker has no rule that he has to payout money, therefore payouts need not be made.

[acw]

There is simply no law in the UK that forces anyone to honour his bet.

What would have happened, if the bet would not have won?
Would Ladbrokes try to find the guy for a refund?
Obviously Ladbrokes must pay it! They made a mistake.

[ourbet]

Originally Posted by acw

What would have happened, if the bet would not have won?
Would Ladbrokes try to find the guy for a refund?

I think NOT!!! Good point acw.

[the_fredrik]

btw this is my first post ever!

I just wanted to tell you that Ladbrokes tried to pull a similar thing on me (accept a bet, then voiding it after it won). I appealed to IBAS, and after 11 months they declared me the winner, after which Ladbrokes paid me immediately.

11 months was pretty weird, and I admit I considered the money lost after a few months, but they did rule in my favour and I was paid the complete winnings which exceeded $40,000!

Have IBAS ruled yet in the golf bet issue?

Fredrik

[chano]

Originally Posted by the_fredrik

btw this is my first post ever!

I just wanted to tell you that Ladbrokes tried to pull a similar thing on me (accept a bet, then voiding it after it won). I appealed to IBAS, and after 11 months they declared me the winner, after which Ladbrokes paid me immediately.

11 months was pretty weird, and I admit I considered the money lost after a few months, but they did rule in my favour and I was paid the complete winnings which exceeded $40,000!

Have IBAS ruled yet in the golf bet issue?



Fredrik

I would love to hear the circumstances of your issue

[JoshW]

Ditto what chano said. This might be the biggest ruling in IBAS history for a player. Would you mind providing all the details?

[Justin7]

It might be the ONLY IBAS ruling in favor of a player. I have never heard of another player winning a dispute there.

[Santo]

There are quite a few claims won at IBAS, they just never make international news. If you pick up a copy of the Racing Post occasionally in England, you'll often see articles about them.

[jjgold]

UK books love to stiff, they are known for that.

[Dead Money]

"Mr Jones had placed the 'tricast' wager as a member of a syndicate for the Three Pigeons pub golfing society."


"Mr Jones, who paid the £6 stake and held the ticket"


Pretty big betting syndicate!!!

[Santo]

Syndicate has a different meaning in this sense, it's like a lottery syndicate, maybe 30 people put £1 in, buy 30 tickets, and split the winnings.

[the_fredrik]

Briefly, my case was a version of what you can read in the excellent book "Gambling Wizards" (by Richard Munchkin): Ladbrokes offered odds at starting prices (quite common in the UK). 'Starting prices' is the odds at the track, and is depending on how much is bet at each horse, so the odds is not known until the race has started. (I believe it is called pari-mutual wagering.)

So, at the track you can affect the odds by betting, at Ladbrokes you can not. (Pause here and think of how you can make money on this!

I guess I got lucky as someone placed a large bet at the track at a horse finishing among the last, and thereby getting a nice odds on the winning horse on the Ladbrokes website!

Ladbrokes was rather rude to me, threatened to charge me with fraud in a swedish newspaper whithout talking to me at all. I finally got a hold of the swedish CEO and wanted to discuss a settlement. He offered me a beer!
He promised me he would follow the IBAS recommendation though, and he did, eventually, after 11 months of waiting.

So, happy end for me.

[Pgagolfer]

just like to say hello and hope that you can all one day benefit from the wonderful game of golf some new and exciting golf tournaments to be played in.

[fiveteamer]

Listen, you book a fukking bet, you pay the fukking bet.

Simple as that.

[ijustwant2bpaid]

Originally Posted by fiveteamer

Listen, you book a fukking bet, you pay the fukking bet.

Simple as that.

agreed but the bet should be honored at odds equal to betting the wnners in the fourth round. I do not kow what kind of books doesn't tell u what u will win when you place your bet but the fact that the players are figuring out their own odds is just wierd to me. I am guesing the odds would be nowhere even close to 2,500 pounds. I agree when they previous posters say he should have taken the 86 pounds. Thats better than 14-1, way better than the real odds of the wager....

[Jaug]

If they accept the bet, they should pay. If it would have lost it surely wouldn't have been voided.

Trying to pinpoint 1 2 3 in a golf tournament even before the 4th round should be almost impossible. Odds of 250 doesn't seem unreasonable imo.

[fiveteamer]

It don't fukkin matter. There is no accountablilty. Fire some employees. Don't fukk with the player.

Monkeyfocker says Vegas books hang bad lines all the time, and they always honour them.

These types of books are fukking weasels, and I'm sick of assholes around here siding with the book every time they hang a bad line and people bet into it.

****ING FIRE SOMEBODY AT YOUR SHIT BOOK. WHO IS THE PERSON PUTTING A BAD LINE OUT THERE? GET RIDE OF THAT GUY. CLEAN YOUR SHIT UP.

[ijustwant2bpaid]

Originally Posted by fiveteamer

It don't fukkin matter. There is no accountablilty. Fire some employees. Don't fukk with the player.

Monkeyfocker says Vegas books hang bad lines all the time, and they always honour them.

These types of books are fukking weasels, and I'm sick of assholes around here siding with the book every time they hang a bad line and people bet into it.

****ING FIRE SOMEBODY AT YOUR SHIT BOOK. WHO IS THE PERSON PUTTING A BAD LINE OUT THERE? GET RIDE OF THAT GUY. CLEAN YOUR SHIT UP.

u just admitted to losing a bet today and making a 400 dollar chargeback, your an admitted stiff your opinion means nothing goodnight,....

[fiveteamer]

sometimes i take shots, big deal.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by fiveteamer

These types of books are fukking weasels, and I'm sick of assholes around here siding with the book every time they hang a bad line and people bet into it.

Well, I am one of those assholes...

Voiding a bet due to an obvious error (as was clearly the case here) is every bookmaker's right and in accordance with European contract law. If you buy something online in Europe at an unreasonable low price, the seller has the right to cancel the sale if the product was offered by error.

As for firing the employee? Have you ever been inside an English betting shop? I can tell you, these shops are not staffed with Einsteins, rather with people with a limited understanding of the products they sell. Firing someone because of a simple mistake is unfair.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by fiveteamer

sometimes i take shots, big deal.

The hypocrite has spoken.

[transferman]

Hi to the forum i hope a little later i will be able to help on numerous topics, this really looks like a cool place to be.