[baseballfan13]

I opened an account with www.betwsc.com on March 31. I sent them 5k via neteller and got a $750 bonus. After playing there a couple weeks my account was at $9181 on three different baseball bets. Then Rick Fitzimons 1-800-321-8481 the main crook there starts accusing me of being a bonus whore and threatens to steal my entire account balance of $9181. I had two co-workers that played there that said they had some opinionated baseball lines so I tried them out. I told them I was referred by Sportsbook Review because that's where my friend said he got their name and I saw they were "C" rated which I felt would be ok. I made my bets from my cell phone and my home computer, but sent the 5k from the work computer. My friends I work with sent their money from the same work computer.
Rick said he called neteller and confirmed with them that we all had the same IP address. Ok, I told him that. He even accussed us of all being the same person. Even though we all called in our bets or bet on our home computers and have neteller accounts linked to our individual bank accounts. Go figure. I even got one of the guys at the office that had an account there get on the phone in the middle of my convesation with Rick to show we weren't the same person.
Both my co-workers sent 5k each and got a $750 bonus. They each lost the entire $5750.
If he wants to link our accounts together then the net loss is $10,000 - $3481(my net profit) = a total loss of -$6569. So he made 6569 on mine and my co-workers accounts but I'm up so he feels he can steal my money. He paid me $4740 via neteller on 6-15-06 after I informed Bill Dozer of Sportsbook Review of the situation. So now if he takes back the $750 bonus I received he still owes me $3691. HE REFUSES TO PAY. They have closed my account and there is a 0 balance and he refuses to get on the phone with me.

[Bill Dozer]

Once you have supplied the ID documentation you should receive the remainder of your funds.

[JoshW]

If they booked the bets they have to pay IMO.

That Neteller is giving books access to player IP information is a little troubling, but my understanding is that they have been doing if for a long time so not that new.

[Bill Dozer]

Where players signed up for their Neteller is irrelevant along with if the player and his buddies were attracted to the same sportsbook. Rick agreed to pay.

BaseballFan agreed to send proof of ID and residence. He has only sent photoshopped docs.

[Shack]

Originally Posted by Bill Dozer

Where players signed up for their Neteller is irrelevant along with if the player and his buddies were attracted to the same sportsbook. Rick agreed to pay.

BaseballFan agreed to send proof of ID and residence. He has only sent photoshopped docs.

SOUNDS LIKE A LICENSE TO STEAL TO ME.

[bones77]

Betwsc stole funds from me as well. I started another thread with my details.

[JoshW]

Understanding I have no knowledge of either case, but from the bookmakers perspective he has to be going crazy hearing about all these players "working at the same place" and "living together temporarily" while taking bonuses off him.

[Patrick McIrish]

Originally Posted by baseballfan13

Rick said he called neteller and confirmed with them that we all had the same IP address.

Interesting. I don't want to hijack this thread but I have to wonder is this standard procedure for Neteller to help books build a case against players? What if some of the players getting stiffed in the 4 Aces/No Juice fiasco needed Neteller to cooperate with them for some reason, would they help the players dig up information against the books as well? Maybe if we can track IP#'s from some of these stiff books it can help us avoid in the future or track down old conmen who have stolen money in the past. I never knew this, not sure what to think about it. Offhand it just seems odd Neteller is assisting books in their efforts to try to build cases against players.

What do you think about all this Bill, is this indeed an accepted and long standing practice of Neteller? Thanks.

[Bill Dozer]

Originally Posted by Bill Dozer

Where players signed up for their Neteller is irrelevant along with if the player and his buddies were attracted to the same sportsbook. Rick agreed to pay.

BaseballFan agreed to send proof of ID and residence. He has only sent photoshopped docs.

Maybe I shouldn't use photohop as an adjective. The player provided photoshop artwork as proof of his identity and residence. He/she has to prove he/she exists.

[isetcap]

Originally Posted by Bill Dozer

Maybe I shouldn't use photohop as an adjective. The player provided photoshop artwork as proof of his identity and residence. He/she has to prove he/she exists.

HAHAHA, that's cute.

[isetcap]

Originally Posted by Patrick McIrish

Interesting. I don't want to hijack this thread but I have to wonder is this standard procedure for Neteller to help books build a case against players? What if some of the players getting stiffed in the 4 Aces/No Juice fiasco needed Neteller to cooperate with them for some reason, would they help the players dig up information against the books as well? Maybe if we can track IP#'s from some of these stiff books it can help us avoid in the future or track down old conmen who have stolen money in the past. I never knew this, not sure what to think about it. Offhand it just seems odd Neteller is assisting books in their efforts to try to build cases against players.

What do you think about all this Bill, is this indeed an accepted and long standing practice of Neteller? Thanks.

I've been telling everyone this about Neteller since I started posting at this site. Neteller exists for the benefit of the gaming establishments and not for the individuals that use its service. Everyone keeps saying how wonderful it is and that perception is definitely not reality.

[bones77]

Bill, I can provide whatever identification you need to get my funds back. Are they willing to give me that same option?

[Bill Dozer]

Bones,
I will reply in your thread.

Originally Posted by Patrick McIrish

Interesting. I don't want to hijack this thread but I have to wonder is this standard procedure for Neteller to help books build a case against players? What if some of the players getting stiffed in the 4 Aces/No Juice fiasco needed Neteller to cooperate with them for some reason, would they help the players dig up information against the books as well? Maybe if we can track IP#'s from some of these stiff books it can help us avoid in the future or track down old conmen who have stolen money in the past. I never knew this, not sure what to think about it. Offhand it just seems odd Neteller is assisting books in their efforts to try to build cases against players.

What do you think about all this Bill, is this indeed an accepted and long standing practice of Neteller? Thanks.

I think people have the impression that IPs are more private than they actually are. Every website you visit and every person you email gets the IP you are using. It essentially records your location. Think of it as a log of license plates for the car that dropped you off.

Neteller shouldn't "build a case against players" but players should know that basic information is available to merchants. This basic information can create leads and prompt merchants to exercise their right to request IDs. Neteller states it won't provide personal details but if your account is under investigation or frozen, merchants may know.

https://www.neteller.com/legalpolicies/index.jsf

[Shack]

Originally Posted by Bill Dozer

Maybe I shouldn't use photohop as an adjective. The player provided photoshop artwork as proof of his identity and residence. He/she has to prove he/she exists.

If a player uses neteller to send money then I think he exists. Maybe the book should quit coming up with stupid excuses and just pay. They already paid him some of his money neteller. What's the difference between then and now. That is just stupid and doesn't make sense.

[Shack]

Originally Posted by Patrick McIrish

Interesting. I don't want to hijack this thread but I have to wonder is this standard procedure for Neteller to help books build a case against players? What if some of the players getting stiffed in the 4 Aces/No Juice fiasco needed Neteller to cooperate with them for some reason, would they help the players dig up information against the books as well? Maybe if we can track IP#'s from some of these stiff books it can help us avoid in the future or track down old conmen who have stolen money in the past. I never knew this, not sure what to think about it. Offhand it just seems odd Neteller is assisting books in their efforts to try to build cases against players.

What do you think about all this Bill, is this indeed an accepted and long standing practice of Neteller? Thanks.

I think neteller is sleeping with the books. This is getting carried away. How betwsc is not being downgraded at this sight is beyond me.

[Bill Dozer]

Originally Posted by Shack

If a player uses neteller to send money then I think he exists. Maybe the book should quit coming up with stupid excuses and just pay. They already paid him some of his money neteller. What's the difference between then and now. That is just stupid and doesn't make sense.

It's the same at all sportsbooks and land casinos. We had a player complain Pinnacle wouldn't pay after providing the picture ID license. The photo was of Lauren Hill of the Fugees taken off Google. When a book requests forms of ID it isn't asking the player to break out the construction paper and Crayolas.

Neteller is not a free pass in and out of any sportsbook. It isn't uncommon for Neteller to close fraudulent accounts. Sportsbook TOS are in place for many reasons. Most sportsbooks wouldn't survive if they took bets from anonymous users.. The AKs are already eating up the incentive budget set for real players.

[docdekay]

I really dont have the patience to read through this entire thread, but I've been playing at wsc since they advertised on MW a long while ago. I have been paid by this place dozens of times well into the five figures without so much as a hiccup.

[isetcap]

Originally Posted by docdekay

I really dont have the patience to read through this entire thread, but I've been playing at wsc since they advertised on MW a long while ago. I have been paid by this place dozens of times well into the five figures without so much as a hiccup.

If you're not a scam artist then it is likely you will have very few problems with books such as this one.

If your idea is to go to the "office" to deposit your money into a book where several of your "office mates" have also deposited into the same book, then I would suggest coming up with a different plan for using your account.

[baseballfan13]

I used my neteller account to fund my WSC account. I had my boyfriend handle my account for me and place bets for me. I let him do this at this sportsbook and others in the past. I let my boyfriend have access to my neteller account. I'm a big girl, I can give him permission to do this. When they started messing with my account they told my boyfriend that I could get my money only if my neteller account address and my account address were exactly the same. Well, I had my address correct at Neteller but gave WSC a made up address because to this day I still get mail from sportsbooks I haven't used in 5 years, so needless to say I didn't want their junk mail. All of my transactions were made through Neteller and they had my correct address so I knew of no reason for WSC to have my correct address and send me junk mail and sell my info and phone number to others.
When WSC said that my address with them and Neteller had to match I knew they had called Neteller and Neteller told them they didn't match. Rick at WSC was laughing on the phone when he made those comments thinking there was no way they would match. So I simply changed the address at my Neteller account to match the bogus address I gave WSC when I opened the account. Then WSC finds this out and says I have to have my id and two utility bills scanned in with the same address I have on the account to get my money. So, since this is a bogus addess and my boyfriend had been calling in on my account for me he decides to have an id with a males picture on it and change the addresses on some old utility bills and change the numbers etc on the bills. All this had to be done because he initially tried stealing my money and knew damn well that the address didn't exist and was determined to steal my money. This is certain.
This guy Rick is nothing but a thief. He then went out of his way to contact the department of public services, and the utility companies as you will see from the following email he sent me.

Nice job scaning everything and making those bills and license. Took a little longer than i though. Maybe your photo shop guy should do a better job next time.

Lets start with the Atmos energy bill. The customer number 000231469 pulls contact information from 1415 est Polk street in Paris Texas. Nancy at Atmos customer service can't understand why the bill you sent doesnt match their records.

The same goes for your Sat bill. This account has nothing to do with the address on the bill. Dish Network asked to to fax this bill in for verification and fraud.

The next is your drivers license. The reference number on it is made up. I have asked Texas DMV for help on this matter and am awaiting a reply from them.

USPS has told me that your address does not exsist. They cannot cross reference this address and told me was a re-named street.

Now, you are a total scammer. I can't beleive you would stoop to such a level and manufacture documents and have the nerve to waste Bills time like this.

This is totally unexceptable to me!!

This is a non-deliverable address. Mail sent to this address will be returned.

[moses millsap]

Can you disprove anything that Rick is claiming in his email? If they are lies, send the documentation to Bill as well and see if anything can get resolved.

[Shack]

Originally Posted by Bill Dozer

It's the same at all sportsbooks and land casinos. We had a player complain Pinnacle wouldn't pay after providing the picture ID license. The photo was of Lauren Hill of the Fugees taken off Google. When a book requests forms of ID it isn't asking the player to break out the construction paper and Crayolas.

Neteller is not a free pass in and out of any sportsbook. It isn't uncommon for Neteller to close fraudulent accounts. Sportsbook TOS are in place for many reasons. Most sportsbooks wouldn't survive if they took bets from anonymous users.. The AKs are already eating up the incentive budget set for real players.

But making up rules and changing rules along the way and even thinking that it is their right to steal all the players post up money and winnings is a little extreme you might say.

[JoshW]

Ok, I may be a misogynist asshole, but I think guys using their girlfriends to beard into a book should get the LEAST accomidation possible. I guess you still pay them, but if they didn't IMO, not SBR opinion obviously, wouldn't bother me at all.

[JoshW]

Originally Posted by Bill Dozer

It's the same at all sportsbooks and land casinos. We had a player complain Pinnacle wouldn't pay after providing the picture ID license. The photo was of Lauren Hill of the Fugees taken off Google.

LMAO, funniest thing have read this week. They guys and gals in the Pinnacle office had to be rolling on the floor.

[Shack]

Originally Posted by docdekay

I really dont have the patience to read through this entire thread, but I've been playing at wsc since they advertised on MW a long while ago. I have been paid by this place dozens of times well into the five figures without so much as a hiccup.

I've been paid by them in the past, but will never consider going back with these types of stunts it seems they are using these days. It starts with things like this and then it audious they run off with all the postups.

[JoshW]

Since people are taking about personal experiences. I played for years with WSC, and even though in the end they limited me to $100, all but kicking me out, I still think they run a real good operation, and I don't like to see them treated this way. Rather than view it as a negative, I hope this thread gets them some business.

[Shack]

Originally Posted by baseballfan13

I used my neteller account to fund my WSC account. I had my boyfriend handle my account for me and place bets for me. I let him do this at this sportsbook and others in the past. I let my boyfriend have access to my neteller account. I'm a big girl, I can give him permission to do this. When they started messing with my account they told my boyfriend that I could get my money only if my neteller account address and my account address were exactly the same. Well, I had my address correct at Neteller but gave WSC a made up address because to this day I still get mail from sportsbooks I haven't used in 5 years, so needless to say I didn't want their junk mail. All of my transactions were made through Neteller and they had my correct address so I knew of no reason for WSC to have my correct address and send me junk mail and sell my info and phone number to others.
When WSC said that my address with them and Neteller had to match I knew they had called Neteller and Neteller told them they didn't match. Rick at WSC was laughing on the phone when he made those comments thinking there was no way they would match. So I simply changed the address at my Neteller account to match the bogus address I gave WSC when I opened the account. Then WSC finds this out and says I have to have my id and two utility bills scanned in with the same address I have on the account to get my money. So, since this is a bogus addess and my boyfriend had been calling in on my account for me he decides to have an id with a males picture on it and change the addresses on some old utility bills and change the numbers etc on the bills. All this had to be done because he initially tried stealing my money and knew damn well that the address didn't exist and was determined to steal my money. This is certain.
This guy Rick is nothing but a thief. He then went out of his way to contact the department of public services, and the utility companies as you will see from the following email he sent me.

Nice job scaning everything and making those bills and license. Took a little longer than i though. Maybe your photo shop guy should do a better job next time.

Lets start with the Atmos energy bill. The customer number 000231469 pulls contact information from 1415 est Polk street in Paris Texas. Nancy at Atmos customer service can't understand why the bill you sent doesnt match their records.

The same goes for your Sat bill. This account has nothing to do with the address on the bill. Dish Network asked to to fax this bill in for verification and fraud.

The next is your drivers license. The reference number on it is made up. I have asked Texas DMV for help on this matter and am awaiting a reply from them.

USPS has told me that your address does not exsist. They cannot cross reference this address and told me was a re-named street.

Now, you are a total scammer. I can't beleive you would stoop to such a level and manufacture documents and have the nerve to waste Bills time like this.

This is totally unexceptable to me!!

This is a non-deliverable address. Mail sent to this address will be returned.

It seems that WSC really needs the money bad these days. The guy calls DMV and the utility companies. My God. Good thing you did give him fake crap, the guy would probably be stealing your mail next week. I would be very cautious giving these guys a bank account number or credit card number. Sounds like he wants to steal your identity and who knows what else.

[Shack]

Originally Posted by lakerfan

Since people are taking about personal experiences. I played for years with WSC, and even though in the end they limited me to $100, all but kicking me out, I still think they run a real good operation, and I don't like to see them treated this way. Rather than view it as a negative, I hope this thread gets them some business.

That is stupid. You say they limited you to $100, but you hope they get business for this crap. They are being treated like the crooks they want to be.

[JoshW]

Shack,

Lots of books limit players to the extreme. More do than don't. That said they let me and other play with them a long time and they certainly are more likely to let a player for as long as they want than most books. They offer unique lines, low juice on some sports, and a bonus. But if you have your whole family signup they don't like it. If that is a knock on a book, so be it. I don't go around using girlfriends to get a second shot at books, maybe you think that is normal. Not in my world.

[Santo]

I disagree with Shack here, I think the investigation and result is warranted, if the documents are not authentic. It's hard enough getting books to trust people anyway, and having to go through mediation, without scammers making it harder for the mediators.

[isetcap]

baseballfan13 downgraded from D- to F

[Shack]

Originally Posted by lakerfan

Shack,

Lots of books limit players to the extreme. More do than don't. That said they let me and other play with them a long time and they certainly are more likely to let a player for as long as they want than most books. They offer unique lines, low juice on some sports, and a bonus. But if you have your whole family signup they don't like it. If that is a knock on a book, so be it. I don't go around using girlfriends to get a second shot at books, maybe you think that is normal. Not in my world.

I'm not saying what the player did is right, but it does not give the book amunition to steal all his money. If you are a book that offers a 15% bonus with a 7x rollover and still have to resort to pantsy anty tactics then you shouldn't be booking bets. Books can't get away with these things. Two wrongs don't make a right in my world. If he had their IP addresses then he should of said something when the 2nd one signed up. I guess WSC thought they would take free shots with the money as long as they were winning, but then when they lost they cried foul. Still, not in my world.

[Dead Money]

I dont care if you are " Living in a Van down by the River' you should still get paid.

Funny how the books do't give a **** where you live when you send them 5 dimes through neteller, But when you request a payout for 10 dimes, better hope you didnt make a typo or anything on your contact info.

What BBF13 did wasn't exactly proper, but does that give the book the rite to keep the money/winnings?
I don't think so.


You book the bet, you pay the bet, pretty straightfoward to me.
Bottomline, they post a line, accept a bet, confirm the bet, they need to pay ,even if this was a type of beard operation

[Halifax]

It's painfully obvious that Shack is part of this little bonus group ... guy's barely posted recently, but is all of a sudden up in arms at multiple forums over this dispute with a relatively obscure book.

Maybe this thread might shed some additional light:

http://forum.therx.com/showthread.php?t=388217

Coincidence ?

[isetcap]

What a surprise!

[Shack]

Originally Posted by Halifax

It's painfully obvious that Shack is part of this little bonus group ... guy's barely posted recently, but is all of a sudden up in arms at multiple forums over this dispute with a relatively obscure book.

Maybe this thread might shed some additional light:

http://forum.therx.com/showthread.php?t=388217

Coincidence ?

Good question Halifax. I'm wondering the same thing. It's weird how this came out of no where. My neteller was reactivated Friday but they didn't give me much of a reason as to why it occured.
If I ever made back in bonuses what I lost when Aces Gold went belly up I would be a happy man, but that's besides the point. I just see similar things happening at this book. Whenever a see a book that used to advertise at the RX and I'm familier with the book and they resort to stealing people's money I will say something. I post in spurts depending on my schedule. I used to never post here because it was a ghost town, but I see it is livening up along with EOG. I would of posted in the WSC thread if I saw it at EOG or Majorwager also, but I didn't see anything.