[paul2650]

Hi guys, a newbie here.

Been doing biz with www.betonsports.com for a coupla years with no problems.

I'm a small bettor though - I usually keep a balance of around $300 to $400, and bet $10-20-30 a game on baseball, football, and basketball.

Anyway, BOS.com changed their software today, and for it top work I have to change my screen resolution which make everything else on my desktop, etc. much smaller.

Either that, or change the resolution everytime I want to use the site, which can be several times a day, hence a real pain.

Any ideas on who I should switch my account to?

(BTW, I use Neteller, and haven't had any problems with them, either.)

Thanks in advance, guys.

[Ganchrow]

Why not give Pinnacle a try?

[marc]

Whoever is running BOS these days must be smoking crack. The new software is amongst the worst if not the worst in the industry.

Between the new software and the locking of accounts, confiscation of funds, there is just no reason whatsoever to play there.

For a small bettor I would suggest a place like bodog or VIP. I fyou are just betting $10-$30 a game the im portant thing is being able to get free withdrawals. Reduced juice on the $30 wager isn't going to save you much

[Catsfan]

I wanted to share a little feedback on BOS. I have been with them for about a month and a half now. I made a pay out request today. At first the woman on the on live chat said I hadn't met my roll over. I thought that was strange because three days a go I inquired and was told I had met my roll over. After about 30 minutes of waiting she came back and said she had missed some of my wagers and said I had met my roll over. So I requested a payout and the money was in my Neteller account within 30 minutes. I am a small player but was very happy thay my withdrawl was processed so swiftly.

[isetcap]

That is one loose organization over there.

[Doug]

Mansion is a solid choice for a straight bettor that doesn't parlay and play halves, etc.

[Chuck Sims]

BetonSports is a criminal enterprise. If you suckers want to donate your money to them, fine.

[Ganchrow]

For a small bettor I would suggest a place like bodog or VIP. I fyou are just betting $10-$30 a game the im portant thing is being able to get free withdrawals. Reduced juice on the $30 wager isn't going to save you much

I have to disagree with you here.

Pinnacle offers one free withdrawal per month, and charges $15 for subsequent withdrawals. Both BoDog and VIP offer unlimited free withdrawals. But just how many withdrawals can we really expect this player to make in a given month?

For MLB game lines, Pinnacle tends to offer at a theoretical hold on average about 0.75% better than VIP, and about 2.25% better than BoDog. run lines Pinnacle is about 1.75% better than both books, and for totals about 2.25% better than both books.

If we assume that in MLB betting, a typical player bets about 50% game lines, and 25% each of totals and run lines, then Pinnacle, on average, offers juice at about 1.38% better than VIP and about 2.13% better than BoDog.

This means that a player betting at Pinnacle and paying $15 for a withdrawal would need to bet $1,091 on average to break even with the player betting at VIP and paying no withdrawal fees, and $706 versus the player betting at BoDog. But of course this is assuming that the player has already made a prior withdrawal that month.

If we assume that the player is likely to make two withdrawals per month (which I think a high estimate), then the player would only need to wager $545.50 before withdrawing to break even with the VIP free withdrawal player, and $353 to break even with the BoDog free withdrawal player. For a player flat wagering between 2.5% and 10% of his starting bankroll, it seems rather likely that in order to reach a reasonable withdrawal target the player would on average roll over his stake many more times than this.

At some point I should probably do a simulation of all this, but for a recreational player the size of the OP, what I think we'd find (assuming withdrawals only after doubling the bankroll), is that the free withdrawal plan will be preferable to the low juice plan only in pathological cases (probably involving a small number of bets and large dogs).

[paul2650]

BOS hasn't been charging me anything to make withdrawals - I've made several of $100 or $200 each, and they were all handled without a problem, BTW - all I've been paying is a $2 fee to Neteller everytime I have the money transferred from my Neteller "Account" to my Neteller ATM card.

I've always been satisfied with BOS, but this new software is a horrror.

I just went thru the whole hassle of changing my screen resolution to make some bets for Tuesday.

After I made the bets and selected the amounts, I clicked on "continue" to confirm them, and got "This page cannot be displayed".

Very frustrating.

[Ganchrow]

BOS hasn't been charging me anything to make withdrawals - I've made several of $100 or $200 each, and they were all handled without a problem, BTW - all I've been paying is a $2 fee to Neteller everytime I have the money transferred from my Neteller "Account" to my Neteller ATM card.

I've always been satisfied with BOS, but this new software is a horrror.

I just went thru the whole hassle of changing my screen resolution to make some bets for Tuesday.

After I made the bets and selected the amounts, I clicked on "continue" to confirm them, and got "This page cannot be displayed".

Very frustrating.

How frequently do you tend to withdraw, and how many bets do you tend to make per month?

[Doug]

No reason not to have Mansion as an out along with Pinny.

Ganchrow gets too mathy for many.

I'll decode it:

Pinny ain't right if you want many transactions and play small.

You should have a few outs beyond Pinny

Pinny is a good book to have.

[Ganchrow]

Ganchrow gets too mathy for many.

I'll try to tone it down a little.

Pinny ain't right if you want many transactions and play small.

Playing small isn't the problem by itself. The issue is really the expected playthrough. So for a given deposit and target withdrawal level, the smaller bettor expects to see a larger improvment from Pinnacle versus VIP/BoDog than the larger bettor.

[Doug]

I'll try to tone it down a little.

Playing small isn't the problem by itself. The issue is really the expected playthrough. So for a given deposit and target withdrawal level, the smaller bettor expects to see a larger improvment from Pinnacle versus VIP/BoDog than the larger bettor.

You can never know too much math as a gambler, it's the very basis of gambling. However, Ganch... consider that many are lost by your over-mathematical anylisys (sp?). I get most of your math, glad you concurred with me on the FP stuff, but I believe your knowledge would more benefit average guys, if stated more simply.

Many bettors would have trouble figuring out how many ways a 10-team parlay can do ( 1024) or don't know how to figure something as basic as that out ( 2 to the 10th power).

I'd suggest simpler stuff and PM's for more complex stuff.

You are a strong math guy for sure, way better than me.

[Doug]

What's your educational background/ degree, etc. ?

I'm a HS graduate with minimal college ( none in math).

[Ganchrow]

You can never know too much math as a gambler, it's the very basis of gambling. However, Ganch... consider that many are lost by your over-mathematical anylisys (sp?). I get most of your math, glad you concurred with me on the FP stuff, but I believe your knowledge would more benefit average guys, if stated more simply.

Many bettors would have trouble figuring out how many ways a 10-team parlay can do ( 1024) or don't know how to figure something as basic as that out ( 2 to the 10th power).

I'd suggest simpler stuff and PM's for more complex stuff.

You are a strong math guy for sure, way better than me.

Thanks for your advice. I'll take it to heart.

Of course if ever anyone doesn't undetstand somthing I've written, that person should always feel free to ask for clarification either in-thread or by way of a PM.

[paul2650]

How frequently do you tend to withdraw, and how many bets do you tend to make per month?

I'd say I average 5-6 withdrawals a year, and maybe the same number of re-ups.

I'm fairly close to being even - for the amount of time I've been betting and the number of bets I make each year and the amount of fun and action I get for my money, I consider myself "even" even if I'm minus a couple of hundred - that amount of money no big deal.

I just don't like my balance to be more than $400 or so, so "i'll make a withdrawal when it gets significantly above that, and if my balance falls much below $100 or so, I'll re-up for another $200-300.

I make maybe 3-4 baseball bets a day - mostly on 'dogs, and an occasional parlay.

During the football season, I'll also average maybe 3-4 straight bets a week, but I'll also bet totals, parlays, teasers, and pleasers.

Same in basketball.

I'd probably bet a bit more if i had a higher level of trust with who I'm dealing with. That's why I bet so little and don't keep very much money in my account.

I had a bad experience a few years ago with "Skybook" (I think it was). Iwas betting more at the time, and they made me wait about 2-3 weeks for a relatively modest withdrawal - I dunno, maybe about $500 or so if I remember correctly - and kept stuffing me off with a load of B.S. stories before I finally got my money, so I've always been a bit gun-shy about betting more since then.

[isetcap]

I'd say I average 5-6 withdrawals a year, and maybe the same number of re-ups.

I'm fairly close to being even - for the amount of time I've been betting and the number of bets I make each year and the amount of fun and action I get for my money, I consider myself "even" even if I'm minus a couple of hundred - that amount of money no big deal.

I just don't like my balance to be more than $400 or so, so "i'll make a withdrawal when it gets significantly above that, and if my balance falls much below $100 or so, I'll re-up for another $200-300.

I make maybe 3-4 baseball bets a day - mostly on 'dogs, and an occasional parlay.

During the football season, I'll also average maybe 3-4 straight bets a week, but I'll also bet totals, parlays, teasers, and pleasers.

Same in basketball.

I'd probably bet a bit more if i had a higher level of trust with who I'm dealing with. That's why I bet so little and don't keep very much money in my account.

Wow, I didn't think this type of player existed anymore! Someone who is a genuine and responsible gambler.

[isetcap]

I certainly hope that Ganchrow does not dumb down his posts so that less "sophisticated" math minds might be able to more easily grasp the concepts he presents. It's OK for people to be challenged mentally in order to gain a clearer understanding. In fact, I would suggest that it is of great benefit for people to start using their little brains so that they may become bigger.

Philosophy born from mathematical analysis is often sound.

[MrX]

Yes, we have exactly one poster on here that consistantly posts sound mathematical analysis of these topics, and 100 who write common sense plain english.

Personally, I would hate to see that ratio get any more lopsided.

[Doug]

I'd say I average 5-6 withdrawals a year, and maybe the same number of re-ups.

I'm fairly close to being even - for the amount of time I've been betting and the number of bets I make each year and the amount of fun and action I get for my money, I consider myself "even" even if I'm minus a couple of hundred - that amount of money no big deal.

I just don't like my balance to be more than $400 or so, so "i'll make a withdrawal when it gets significantly above that, and if my balance falls much below $100 or so, I'll re-up for another $200-300.

I make maybe 3-4 baseball bets a day - mostly on 'dogs, and an occasional parlay.

During the football season, I'll also average maybe 3-4 straight bets a week, but I'll also bet totals, parlays, teasers, and pleasers.

Same in basketball.

I'd probably bet a bit more if i had a higher level of trust with who I'm dealing with. That's why I bet so little and don't keep very much money in my account.

I had a bad experience a few years ago with "Skybook" (I think it was). Iwas betting more at the time, and they made me wait about 2-3 weeks for a relatively modest withdrawal - I dunno, maybe about $500 or so if I remember correctly - and kept stuffing me off with a load of B.S. stories before I finally got my money, so I've always been a bit gun-shy about betting more since then.

I doubt it was Skybook, maybe Sportsinteraction ?