[dvorak51]

Hi,

First post here, and it's unfortunate that these are the circumstances in which I am posting.

Anyway, SportingBet, PLC, has locked all of my accounts and have refused to release the $300 I have deposited in two of their sites recently.

For the record, I have several accounts, but one per "skin," (which is completely legal). About a week or two ago, I had three accounts locked due to "bonus abuse." Through support, I got no good answer as to what they meant; I was simply told that my accounts were locked and it was a management decision that would not be reversed.

Frantic, I tried withdrawing my deposits only from the other skins in which I had an account (Aces.com and Sportfanatik.com). The next day, both those accounts were locked.

I spoke to reps from both Aces.com and Sportfanatik, and got a reply today from Aces.com regarding my account:

I write to inform you that our management department have completed their review of your account and have concluded that no more funds will be returned to you. As per our records more funds have been sent then were received on the account.

(is it just me, or does that sound like you could, theoretically, have your account locked if you win at all?)

I got this email from Sportfanatik, a few hours later:

Further to your inactivated account, we can confirm that no further funds will be refunded to you.

We have already credited back more than what you have deposited.

All initial deposits made in your account should have been refunded.

We hope that this clarifies matters.

If you have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact us.

That's interesting, considering I have made one deposit to this account, and have NEVER made a withdrawal from it!

I figured out that it is SportingBet's policy to deny withdrawals on flagged accounts if the amount you have withdrawn across the entire SportingBet network exceeds the amount you have deposited. So if you won $300 at one SportingBet skin, withdrew it, and deposited $300 at another skin, and then got locked out of your accounts for any reason, you won't be able to get back your $300.

I kept asking support to show me where that clause was in their terms and conditions, and they could not answer that question.

Again, I'd like to point out that I'm just trying to withdraw my original deposits, and no actual bonus money won from these two sites.

And I probably don't need to say it, but I would advise people to stay away from SportingBet sites...

I'd like to add...I have, on occasion, taken advantage of some of their reload bonuses. However, I always make sure to provide some cover play before making any withdrawals. And I certainly do not withdraw simply with the intention of re-depositing.

[tacomax]

Welcome to the forum, dvorak51. It would be a good idea to Bill Dozer full details at assistance@SportsbookReview.com

This isn't the first time that this kind of problem has come up with Sportingbet and I'm sure it won't be the last. However, I'm also sure that Bill knows the right people at Sportingbet to get this sorted out for you.

[Ganchrow]

I suppose it's of little comfort to hear that such behavior is not atypical for the Sportingbet family.

While others may disagree with me, it's my opinion that a book should only confiscate funds in cases of serious abuse such as player ghosting, hacking, or event fixing. In less severe casxes, while a book certainly has every right to lower limits a player's limits or decline his action, funds confiscation (and I see no justification for differentiating between winnings and deposits) should be universally unacceptable.

If a book wants to put in place restrictions on re-up bonuses or on playing accounts at multiple sister books (and I certainly have no problem with either policy decision), then it behooves the book in the former case not to pay re-up bonuses when inappropriate, and in the latter case not to allow the player to open the multiple accounts in the first place (if a player were to bypass this using "creative" sign up data, then I'd consider that ghosting).

I find it completely unacceptable for a book not to take full responsibility for both the bonus money it awards players and for the winnings, if any, that that player accrues. If a book is unhappy with some structural inefficiency inherent in its bonus scheme then it needs to change that scheme, not punish a player abiding by the letter of the law. This should hold true no matter how big a bonus hunter that player may be. If a book is unable to articulate its bonus policy well enough then that's not the player's fault. It's the book's.

[dvorak51]

Welcome to the forum, dvorak51. It would be a good idea to Bill Dozer full details at assistance@SportsbookReview.com

This isn't the first time that this kind of problem has come up with Sportingbet and I'm sure it won't be the last. However, I'm also sure that Bill knows the right people at Sportingbet to get this sorted out for you.

Yeah, I actually did that before posting this thread.

Thanks for the welcome!

[dvorak51]

I suppose it's of little comfort to hear that such behavior is not atypical for the Sportingbet family.

While others may disagree with me, it's my opinion that a book should only confiscate funds in cases of serious abuse such as player ghosting, hacking, or event fixing. In less severe casxes, while a book certainly has every right to lower limits a player's limits or decline his action, funds confiscation (and I see no justification for differentiating between winnings and deposits) should be universally unacceptable.

If a book wants to put in place restrictions on re-up bonuses or on playing accounts at multiple sister books (and I certainly have no problem with either policy decision), then it behooves the book in the former case not to pay re-up bonuses when inappropriate, and in the latter case not to allow the player to open the multiple accounts in the first place (if a player were to bypass this using "creative" sign up data, then I'd consider that ghosting).

I find it completely unacceptable for a book not to take full responsibility for both the bonus money it awards players and for the winnings, if any, that that player accrues. If a book is unhappy with some structural inefficiency inherent in its bonus scheme then it needs to change that scheme, not punish a player abiding by the letter of the law. This should hold true no matter how big a bonus hunter that player may be. If a book is unable to articulate its bonus policy well enough then that's not the player's fault. It's the book's.

This is a great post! I wholeheartedly agree with just about everything here.

I even told the CSRs I spoke to that I didn't care about the bonus money in the two accounts that have recently been locked. I have no problem with the confiscation of the bonus funds, although a friend of mine disagrees, saying I'm getting wholly shafted.

BTW, no, I did not "creatively" open accounts at each skin; in fact, I was told that they were able to connect all the accounts together by my name and Neteller account.

And, you are correct in supposing that it's of little comfort to hear that this isn't the first time SB has pulled something like this

[LGBoots]

I e-mailed SB some time ago regarding this matter as I have A/C's with a few of their books.

I received a reply that it was fine to hold more then 1 A/C with them.

Seems to me they just make this multiple A/C's not allowed rule up when it suits them I have kept the e-mail just in case of future problems

Were you playing Casino or Sportsbook action with them? As I have heard they clamp down on Casino bonuses pretty fast.

[yokspot]

I had a slightly less serious problem with a SB skin when they tried to confiscate $420 - the sum total of all bonuses I'd received there. They categorically refused to reconsider, so I contacted Bill Dozer, at which point they categorically reconsidered .

Remember that SB are listed on the UK AIM and legal action can be taken against them. If it came to it, a solicitor's letter might go a long way towards mellowing their attitude.

Good luck.

[Mudcat]

Welcome to the forum, dvorak. Not much I can add. I have heard of Sportingbet pulling this stuff before and I find it scummy.

This reminds me a great deal of a recent case involving BETonSPORTS and Millenium. That one had all the forums in a firestorm for about a week and making reference to, "the BoS Crime Family."

[jason]

Unbelievable. Bill, can we get an official response from the whole Sportingbet family as to their policies on multiple accounts and theft. I'd like to have it on record before I start playing there.

[dvorak51]

I e-mailed SB some time ago regarding this matter as I have A/C's with a few of their books.

I received a reply that it was fine to hold more then 1 A/C with them.

Seems to me they just make this multiple A/C's not allowed rule up when it suits them I have kept the e-mail just in case of future problems

Were you playing Casino or Sportsbook action with them? As I have heard they clamp down on Casino bonuses pretty fast.

It was mostly sportsbook action.

I like to make a variety of bets just for fun, ranging from $5-10. I am by no means a hardcore bettor.

And yeah, I got the same response regarding multiple accounts when I first opened them--that it was perfectly OK to have them.

[dvorak51]

I had a slightly less serious problem with a SB skin when they tried to confiscate $420 - the sum total of all bonuses I'd received there. They categorically refused to reconsider, so I contacted Bill Dozer, at which point they categorically reconsidered .

Remember that SB are listed on the UK AIM and legal action can be taken against them. If it came to it, a solicitor's letter might go a long way towards mellowing their attitude.

Good luck.

Thanks...it's really reassuring to hear that you got your money back.

I'm still anxiously awaiting a reply from Bill Dozer; hopefully he can recoup some of my funds.

[LGBoots]

It was mostly sportsbook action.

I like to make a variety of bets just for fun, ranging from $5-10. I am by no means a hardcore bettor.

And yeah, I got the same response regarding multiple accounts when I first opened them--that it was perfectly OK to have them.

Have you still got the e-mail or live chat transcript of when they told you multiple accounts were ok?

If you have they have not got a leg to stand on in denying you your winnings

[dvorak51]

Have you still got the e-mail or live chat transcript of when they told you multiple accounts were ok?

If you have they have not got a leg to stand on in denying you your winnings

I do, but the multiple accounts isn't the reason for the accounts being locked...it's the fact that they labeled me as a bonus abuser.

In fact, a rep told me that multiple accounts can be linked together and treated as one, as in my case here. I wish they would have mentioned that earlier...

[tacomax]

I do, but the multiple accounts isn't the reason for the accounts being locked...it's the fact that they labeled me as a bonus abuser.

In fact, a rep told me that multiple accounts can be linked together and treated as one, as in my case here. I wish they would have mentioned that earlier...

Any emails you've recieved (or not received) are irrelevant. Leave the matter to Bill - that's your best hope of getting a good outcome.

[dvorak51]

Any emails you've recieved (or not received) are irrelevant. Leave the matter to Bill - that's your best hope of getting a good outcome.

That's what I figured.

[LGBoots]

It's such a shame. SportingBet + Clones could be real decent
books if they didn't pull these crappy tricks every now & then

There is just no need for this sort of behaviour. The SportingBet family of books make a damn good profit withot having to resort to 'stealing'. Just have a look at their recently released Profit Figures for proof of this...

http://www.sportingbetplc.com/pages/1/Home.stm

Gross margin up 58% to £84.4m (2005: 53.4m)
Operating profit* up 43% to £28.8m (2005: £20.2m)
Profit before tax up 55% to £21.2m (2005: £13.7m)
Basic earnings per share* of 6.6p (2005: 5.5p)
Diluted earnings per share* of 6.4p (2005: 4.2p)
Cash generation from operating activities of £29.5m (2005: £18.7m)

[dvorak51]

I just got this email from Sportfanatik:

Dear Peter,

Just a quick note to inform you that your withdrawal for $250.00 will be sent on 07/05 via Neteller.

If you have any questions in relation to this matter please do not hesitate to contact us here.

Regards,
Ray

We'll see...

[tacomax]

Nice one, Bill.

[dvorak51]

I got this today from Aces.com:

I write to inform you that our management department have completed their review of your account and have concluded that no more funds will be returned to you. As per our records more funds have been sent then were received on the account. As per site rules this decision is final and will not be reviewed again.

It was found that bonus abuse was the reason for this - You received the same bonus in these accts: [account numbers deleted]

If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

I'm not going to try to figure out exactly what bonus they are talking about, but it sounds like they banned me because I claimed sign-up bonuses at each site. If that's the case...then what's the point of opening multiple accounts? If I am opening multiple accounts for the purpose of betting with all three of them, I have to make a deposit at each site, don't I? And, oh yeah, that's gonna trigger a deposit bonus!

And the real strange thing is, I still have two accounts that are not (yet) locked!

Well, if Sportfanatik really refunds my $250, I guess that's better than nothing, though not quite as good as $300...

[JC]

Do they put this anywhere in their rules? Do they list their other books anywhere in their rules? If not they are taking a free shot at the customers.

[dvorak51]

Do they put this anywhere in their rules? Do they list their other books anywhere in their rules? If not they are taking a free shot at the customers.

Not that I'm aware of.

Again, if I'm really not allowed to claim multiple deposit bonuses, then what's the point of opening multiple accounts?

[dvorak51]

This issue has been partially resolved, as Sportfanatik has refunded my $250 deposit!

Aces.com continues to refuse to refund my $50, though...but $250 is a lot better than $0.

[Bill Dozer]

Sportingbet asked us to meet with them this month, saying they would resolve all of these cases then. I guess they want to make sure we are staying for lunch.

Checking in on the $50.

[dvorak51]

Sportingbet asked us to meet with them this month, saying they would resolve all of these cases then. I guess they want to make sure we are staying for lunch.

Checking in on the $50.

Awesome!

[LGBoots]

Sportingbet asked us to meet with them this month, saying they would resolve all of these cases then. I guess they want to make sure we are staying for lunch.

Checking in on the $50.

Bill when you meet them can you ask them to clarify their position on multiple A/C's held across their various clone sites.

This problem comes up time & time again & how they can accuse punters of taking unfair advantage of their bonus system is beyond me

[Bill Dozer]

LG,

That will be a main discussion point.

dvorak,

I'm told your accounts have been reactivated with your funds and a small free-play was added for the inconvenience.

Please let us know if everything looks good.

[dvorak51]

LG,

That will be a main discussion point.

dvorak,

I'm told your accounts have been reactivated with your funds and a small free-play was added for the inconvenience.

Please let us know if everything looks good.

Bill...you are the man!

I just got an email from Aces.com confirming exactly what you mentioned above!

Just to be safe, though, I don't think I will be taking advantage of any more SB redeposit bonuses, at least not in the near future.

[tacomax]

LG,

That will be a main discussion point.

Has there been a case of Sportingbet pulling a stunt but refusing to back down once you approached them?

[Bill Dozer]

Has there been a case of Sportingbet pulling a stunt but refusing to back down once you approached them?

The majority of these have not been resolved which is the main reason for this meeting. We are hopeful there will be new rules going up and checks going out.

[dvorak51]

Hmm...upon further review, two accounts are still locked.

They are located at SportingBetUSA and LinesMaker.

Should I bother trying to get those accounts unlocked?

[Vietbet]

Sportingbet brings this grief upon themselves by:

A. Actively soliciting business to sister sportsbooks by emailing bonus offers from all their stores to active clients, thus creating this mess.

B. Offering bonuses to both winning and losing players for deposits on specific days of the week, then having to sort it out later on.

[dvorak51]

Sportingbet brings this grief upon themselves by:

A. Actively soliciting business to sister sportsbooks by emailing bonus offers from all their stores to active clients, thus creating this mess.

B. Offering bonuses to both winning and losing players for deposits on specific days of the week, then having to sort it out later on.

Yeah...it'll be interesting to see if/how SportingBet changes their bonus scheme, and if they actually spell out their terms and conditions about claiming certain bonuses at different "skins."

[Bill Dozer]

Hmm...upon further review, two accounts are still locked.

They are located at SportingBetUSA and LinesMaker.

Should I bother trying to get those accounts unlocked?

Unless you are missing a balance at any of these sites I suggest taking this as an unofficial warning and using only one site (If you still want to play there at all).

[BuddyBear]

hope things work out for you Dvorak