[kiwi]

Hi what is your opinion about the following bet I placed at Intertops on Friday? I placed a bet that in the soccer game Portugal against the Netherlands would be 0 or 1 goal, the odds of Intertops were 3.33. I placed the bet at about 8 in the morning. When I left home 4 hours later I verified it again and also Intertops still had the same odds for that bet (so they really had a lot of time to recognize their mistake in case it was one). Later in the evening when I came back home I saw I had mail from them that the bet had been voided due to an obvious mistake of Intertops. My opinion is that the mistake was not obvious at all (the altogether payout for the bets '0 or 1 goal', '2 or 3 goals' and '4-6 goals' was way below 100%) and Intertops only voided that bet because too many bettors had placed money on these good odds. I think if a bookmaker notices there go too many bettors on a bet he just should adjust the odds in time instead to sleep first and then cancel the bet...

[diamond]

My opinion is if they voided the bet BEFORE the match and also sent the email BEFORE the match, they have the right do to so. I am not sure how overpriced it really was though.

[adriano]

Just a little bit overpriced imo. Maybe should have been 2.80, 2.90.

[bigboydan]

if they canceled your wager before the game started, and did send you a timed stamped email stating they voided it. then i would have to side with the book in this case.

[diamond]

Just a little bit overpriced imo. Maybe should have been 2.80, 2.90.

Thanks adriano, would reckon that range myself. I think actually Intertops were right in the beginning, but then all this lowscoring matches came around in the final stages, and they had to adjust it.

[kiwi]

if they canceled your wager before the game started, and did send you a timed stamped email stating they voided it. then i would have to side with the book in this case.

I admit they have the right to do so but if they do it more often I don't have confidence anymore to bet with them in case they offer good odds. If other bookies have (too) good odds they react faster changing them but don't void the bets done already. That's just my opinion of course.

[natrass]

Personally, a book should not be able to review their prices after bets have been made.

If there is a gross error then 'generously' adjust it.

Do they allow bettors to cancel their bets before games?

They should be downgraded for this practice.

[chano]

Reverse the situation: I place a bet on a line of +150 , then 4 hours later that line is +175. Can I cancel my bet. Is this not the same scenerio ? Intertops is another one off my list.

[DrSlamm]

how can anyone justify the book cancelling a bet 4 hours after it was made... Bad line or not that is FAR too long to wait to cancel a bet

[diamond]

how can anyone justify the book cancelling a bet 4 hours after it was made... Bad line or not that is FAR too long to wait to cancel a bet

Its difficult to define what is long and what is not? Let say a sportsbook say they only operate from 12.00 to 22.00 on Sundays, and bet is made between closing hours Sunday and opening hours Monday. I think then they should be allowed to cancel bets, as long as its before the game starts. And its more important that they cancel it good time before the game, than discussing how many hours after the bet was made it was cancelled.

And yes, there are still books with not 24 hours support and risk managment, at least in Europe. I know a quite a few sportsbooks that use autopilots on risk management after closing hours. In this case, a autopilot will close the object if a lot action is taken on a certain object.

[magnavox]

diamond, stop it already, you're making a fool of yourself with every word you post.

Even infamous Globet does not book wagers when they go to sleep, only accepts them for approval, so you can only blame yourself if you get screwed.

Also, what you're describing is a steam. Those wagers are good, even if the current price is -150 and you got them at -110 minute ago.

[diamond]

diamond, stop it already, you're making a fool of yourself with every word you post.

Even infamous Globet does not book wagers when they go to sleep, only accepts them for approval, so you can only blame yourself if you get screwed.

Also, what you're describing is a steam. Those wagers are good, even if the current price is -150 and you got them at -110 minute ago.

Who is the fool here? They voided and emailed the customer BEFORE the event, so no reason to complain (terms and conditions was signed). As I said earlier, not sure what the market was on, but Im sure it was a lot lower than this price based on all under 2,5 matches.

I would prefer a system like this rather than Globets. What Globet has done in the past is that bets are sent for approval, but this is really not good when a customer bet on US sports around midnight CET. Because then the support is not there to approve and will have to wait until next morning when result is also ready They actually been known for voiding winners in the morning after the results were ready.

So dont even go there, comparing Intertops to Globet. But yes, I heard Intertops are doing more and more voiding, so I feel soon they rating should deserve a drop.

And when you say "so you can only blame yourself if you get screwed.", I understand you have problems seeing all aspects of the betting business.

[acw]

Reverse the situation: I place a bet on a line of +150 , then 4 hours later that line is +175. Can I cancel my bet. Is this not the same scenerio ? Intertops is another one off my list.

I am completely flabbergasted that some posters even dare to side with the book on this one! kiwi has simply been robbed on this one and should post that everywhere until he gets paid the full price.

[BadAzz]

Althought I love the word flabbergasted I still would side by the book. The bet was voided well before the event started and the price was pretty much off. So I figure it was a bad line. Should there have been a line move the situation would be a bit different, but since I did not follow the situation I cannot judge that.

[chano]

They side with the book because they have to for whatever reason. This is clearly a borderline scam operation. Why would anyone use these books?

[tacomax]

I am completely flabbergasted that some posters even dare to side with the book on this one! kiwi has simply been robbed on this one and should post that everywhere until he gets paid the full price.

Personally I don't see that the book has done a lot wrong and nothing I've seen here persuades me otherwise.

Intertops put a price up which they said was an error and then emailed kiwi before the event started to advise them that the bet has been cancelled. Can anyone think of a better way to do this? It gave the kiwi the option to either place the bet again at the revised price or bet elsewhere. I'm sure the kiwi would be unhappy if they'd have adjusted the odds on the bet without telling him. If the game had started or even finished and they cancelled the bet then that's a different matter, but it hadn't.

Can anyone advise a better way of acting in this situation where a sportsbook cancels an existing wager?

[chano]

I agree with the principles of they way they conducted themselves. Problem is this: What ia an error? In this case the line was only off 20-40 cents. This is not an error. If this is acceptable then they can cancel all bets anytime as long as the game has not started ? So for example , they keep all bets at -175 to - 190 , and email the clients who wagered at -145-174 and cancel their wagers. Thats Bull shit, to say the least.

[diamond]

I agree with the principles of they way they conducted themselves. Problem is this: What ia an error? In this case the line was only off 20-40 cents. This is not an error. If this is acceptable then they can cancel all bets anytime as long as the game has not started ? So for example , they keep all bets at -175 to - 190 , and email the clients who wagered at -145-174 and cancel their wagers. Thats Bull shit, to say the least.

'

That will always be the problem, where to draw the limit for an error? Its a never ending discussion. Its just up to sportsbook not to "over use" this rule. As I said Intertops have started to do this more and more, which is not a good sign at all. But in this case, I think the price was out of line. As I say, I cant believe anyone in the market offering near that based on all matches going under 2,5.

[BadAzz]

I am busy trying to figure a reason why I would need to side with a book that I've never had an account with. Neither do I have or ever have had any part of a venture that would promote them.

[magnavox]

The price was as just out of line as in the NBA only ONE point difference in spread (full game). On top of it I think it "steamed" as more and more games in the World Cup ended in low scores.

[diamond]

The price was as just out of line as in the NBA only ONE point difference in spread (full game). On top of it I think it "steamed" as more and more games in the World Cup ended in low scores.

The low score point I have underlined several times. But would be cool if someone knew the other marketprices on this object, that would really reflect how much out of line it was. If you say it was just like one point in the nba, could you please tell me what other sportsbooks had on the same object? I really dont know, just curious. I will say 3.33 can be seen as mistake, but I would like to know what others had.

[Bill Dozer]

The book should only cancel bets when there is a "gross" error. They can't cancel a bet just because they don't like what they booked or were sleeping at the wheel when the market was changing.

Even if the book follows the appropriate procedure for canceling a bad line and making sure the funds were not at risk, the player may still be taking a monetary loss. If Kiwi was home and wanted to rebet the match after the email was sent, he would have to pay more which is not fair.

The least they owe him is the difference in price between what he worked to find and what the odds were when the bet was canned (assuming it was not an obvious mistake).

[kiwi]

To make confusion complete I must say that by accident I wrote it was the game Portugal against the Netherlands but it was the game Portugal against England. Sorry for this mistake, I also placed a bet before on Portugal against the Netherlands and anyhow confounded the names of the teams when writing here. Anyway everything else I wrote is correct. Concerning the odds on the market I can say that at least at Betdaq my lay-offer of 2.70 against 0-1 goals had been accepted so I think the 3.33 of Intertops were not completely out of line.
To give you a complete image of what happened further I can say I wrote a protest mail to Intertops and they said they apologize for what happened but at least credited a bonus of 20 Euro to my account (which doesn't cover my loss of course). As I think anyway I can't reach more and also have other things to do than argue with bookies I accepted the bonus and replied them for me the case is finished now.
Thanks for all your postings to this topic and your opinion.

[natrass]

Intertops put a price up which they said was an error and then emailed kiwi before the event started to advise them that the bet has been cancelled. Can anyone think of a better way to do this?

Erm, yes, I can.

I understand your point of view here taco but I have highlighted the flaw in your argument here.

In reality, it wasnt a 'gross error' it was a price they subsequently didnt like so cancelled it. That "they said" it is an error is irrelevant .. it wasnt (other than poor pricing up).

The better way i would suggest is that either :

(a) books allow players to cancel wagers if they change their mind before the game starts

or (b) they can only justify cancelling a bet if their is a gross error. And then any readjustment should be 'generous' to reflect the blame being all the books own making. Their vig should be minimal.

And, this emailing before the game is not a sure-fire get out. If i want to bet a game and go out to the pub to watch it, i should not have to check my emails repeatedly until kick off to see how many of my "accepted" bets (by which I am bound) have been cancelled by the book.

This practice cannot be tolerated.

[BadAzz]

I guess this case really is about whether the error was gross or not. Respect to Kiwi for discussing it professionally and accepting different opinions.

Should we live in the perfect world, there would be no voided bets but obviously the books need to have that possibility, cause mistakes happen. I don't think they do it lightly since each and every voided bet eats a bit of their reputation which is the only asset they have in the eyes of the players.

I've had a fair shair of my bets voided, some of them more obvious than others, but I personally accept the fact that bookies excersise the "bad line" rule. On the other hand I will never accept any kind of cash or bonus confiscation.

What do you guys think about Pinny voiding the baseball bets a few days back, when they had the moneyline at 1.8 while the market average was something like 1.52. I have no problems at all with that, but most of the guys here do it seemes.

[Doug]

The book should only cancel bets when there is a "gross" error. They can't cancel a bet just because they don't like what they booked or were sleeping at the wheel when the market was changing.

Even if the book follows the appropriate procedure for canceling a bad line and making sure the funds were not at risk, the player may still be taking a monetary loss. If Kiwi was home and wanted to rebet the match after the email was sent, he would have to pay more which is not fair.

The least they owe him is the difference in price between what he worked to find and what the odds were when the bet was canned (assuming it was not an obvious mistake).

I don't know soccer well enough to say how off the line was, but it seems not that far off on the surface. Player should prevail unless gross error.

I don't get what Bill means in the highlighted text. Pay him as if it were a scalp ?

Adjust the price and let him rebet ?

[magnavox]

What do you guys think about Pinny voiding the baseball bets a few days back, when they had the moneyline at 1.8 while the market average was something like 1.52. I have no problems at all with that, but most of the guys here do it seemes.

No problems right, however in your example the difference is about three times more out of line than the Intertops line.

[BadAzz]

That might be, since I am not that good with numbers.
Can you tell me how the math goes here.

2,7 vs 3,33 and 1,52 vs 1,8

How do I determine how much more the other is off than the other?

[custer]

Personally I don't see that the book has done a lot wrong and nothing I've seen here persuades me otherwise.

Intertops put a price up which they said was an error and then emailed kiwi before the event started to advise them that the bet has been cancelled. Can anyone think of a better way to do this? It gave the kiwi the option to either place the bet again at the revised price or bet elsewhere. I'm sure the kiwi would be unhappy if they'd have adjusted the odds on the bet without telling him. If the game had started or even finished and they cancelled the bet then that's a different matter, but it hadn't.

Can anyone advise a better way of acting in this situation where a sportsbook cancels an existing wager?

How bout unless its a GROSS typo type error, they honour the bets they book. When I make a mathematical mistake and place a bad bet, I don't send the book an email letting them know its canceled.

[isetcap]

I can't tell you how many times I have made gross errors. I never once considered requesting to have my action cancelled. It's nothing short of pathetic that Intertops would not entertain this action as it doesn't even come close to being a gross error.

It is perfectly appropriate for a book to cancel action prior to the start of an event when it can prove that a line is erroneously priced with no juice or a line is reversed. That would constitute a gross error. Kiwi's situation involved neither scenario.

The only gross error that was made in this situation was the cancelling of the original action. I wonder if Intertops will recognize this error also. Hopefully Bill will assist them with this realization by reminding them their reputation/rating is at stake.