[Art]

Here are the facts from the victim himself:

I have been betting in Mill for about 3 weeks now. I lost $23,000 there in that time, each time reloading with a 40-50% bonus incentives they used to draw me in and then back (shocking – they’re very good to me when I lose everything).

A couple of days ago I made my standard reload of $3,000 and got a 40% bonus of $1,200. I placed and won one wager (finally) bringing my account balance to just under $11,000. Millenium all of a sudden decides to close my account and send me back my deposit with a small percentage of my winnings – they just STOLE the rest – ABOUT $4,500 DOLLARS OF MY MONEY!!!!

I called Bill Dozer with my problem immediately. I specifically told him I would not agree to any situation in which Millenium kept for themselves any of my winnings, but they went ahead and did it anyway. I say how can a book get away with this???? They are literally stealing not only the bonus money but actual winnings from my wager.

As if that weren’t enough to deal with, the new merger between this book and BetonSports apparently makes this story even worse.

I had also opened up an account at BetonSports last week and literally made two wagers there. I deposited $6,000 there and was offered a $3,000 bonus. I bet that whole thing on 1 game and won it – bringing my balance to $21,000. I placed another wager for $10k a couple of days later, which I also won. When I signed up I specifically asked about wagering limits and they guaranteed me $10,000 on the internet and usually more by phone – that’s why I deposited so much. I placed and won only TWO wagers there. Well they decided to cut my limits to $1,000 a wager, effectively meaning that instead of the 10 or so bets I would need to complete my 12 time rollover I now need 90 bets!!!! And if I don’t accept their terms – they have threatened to confiscate the bonus and 33% of my winnings!!!!
I mean if that’s not stealing than what the hell is?

THIS BOOK IS A SCAM AND THEY ALWAYS HAVE BEEN. THEY BASCIALLY DO THE FOLLOWING: OFFER AMAZING BONUSES WHICH THEY WILL NEVER HAVE TO PAY. THERE’S ONLY 2 OPTIONS:
IF YOU LOSEM THEY WIN
AND IF YOU WIN, THEY EITHER CONFISCATE YOUR MONEY AND SHUT YOU DOWN OR LOWER YOUR LIMITS TENFOLD SO IT WILL TAKE YOU MONTHS TO GET OUT!!

I was told that customer service manager Jamie was a “good” person and he said he works for the player, but I don’t see it here. I have dealt with him regarding my money at Millenum and BetonSports and Bill has spoken to him too and he does not care. I mean this is a publicly traded company for crying out loud How can they get away with this theft? Who would ever give these people any money - $100 or $1,000.

With this much money potentially stolen from me, all I can say is enough with these books. The risk isn’t worth it. Small or big players – just use an A rated book. I mean I hope that Bill is able to fix this situation, but as things stand this is the biggest rip-off I have ever seen.

[Mudcat]

Thanks for posting. I agree that is unacceptable, crooked behavior on the part of the books.

I would sure like to hear what they're thinking (other than the obvious: that they would rather just keep people's money than give it back.)

[BrentCrude]

Wow,you high rollers who get screwed by shakey ground sports books have my sympathy but when dealing with major $$$$ like you guys do you make yourself very vulnerable to getting ripped off.I wouldn't have fun winning a bet or watching the game I bet on if I had the slightest hint that I might not get paid.

I know there have been negative posts on the umbrella of sportsbooks owned by Sporting Bet PLC but they are listed on the London Stock exchange and are rock solid with payouts being prompt and they offer a ton of promotions for the small recreational bettor.

[SBR_John]

We still intend to see this settled. We appreciate the many posts of support for the player.

[Art]

6/4/2006 18:06 Millennium $3,000.00 - USD Accepted
6/4/2006 12:29 Millennium $3,000.00 - USD Accepted
6/1/2006 17:39 Millennium $3,000.00 - USD Accepted
6/1/2006 11:13 Millennium $3,000.00 - USD Accepted
5/31/2006 18:27 Millennium $3,000.00 - USD Accepted
5/31/2006 9:22 Millennium $3,000.00 - USD Accepted
5/25/2006 11:43 Millennium $2,000.00 - USD Accepted
5/24/2006 18:58 Millennium $2,000.00 - USD Accepted
5/21/2006 15:41 Millennium $2,000.00 - USD Accepted
5/21/2006 12:01 Millennium $2,000.00 - USD Accepted

I started out depositing $2000. Then they told me that I would get a better bonus if I deposited $3000. They lured me in only to confiscate my money once I won.

[jason]

To me it makes no difference how much you've deposited - a sportsbook steals money from you and that's all I need to hear. The facts of this case are even more egregious and appalling.

This whole family of books is now off limits for me until further notice.

Bill, can you post which books are associated with the betonsprots family now?

[Chuck Sims]

Hi Art, welcome to the growing list of people who have been robbed by the BetOnSports/Millennium criminal enterprise.

Many people over the years have posted on the gambling forums that they have been stiffed by these scumbags. Yet, people continue to play there.

This most recent theft by Millennium is a bit unusual in that according to the player he had lost a considerable amount of money to them leading up to the robbery. I guess they could not help themselves and decided to rob this player anyway.

[Bill Dozer]

Originally Posted by jason

To me it makes no difference how much you've deposited - a sportsbook steals money from you and that's all I need to hear. The facts of this case are even more egregious and appalling.

This whole family of books is now off limits for me until further notice.

Bill, can you post which books are associated with the betonsprots family now?

This link will give you the BOS sites
http://www.sportsbookreview.com/Rati...onSPORTS%20Plc

[Fishhead]

Thats a terriffic link Bill..............SBR does a fantastic job with that.

[Halifax]

Originally Posted by Fishhead

Thats a terriffic link Bill..............SBR does a fantastic job with that.

What are your thoughts on this episode Fish ?

It's pretty much cut-and-dried in my opinion .. they're stealing from him ... sure the guy is a Class of 2006 graduate of Bonus Whore / Scalp Out University (deposit - receive nice bonus - bet full balance - 'hopefully' scalp out - rinse and repeat) ... but that has no relevance whatsoever in justifying BetMill's actions in this situation, since the guy isn't breaking any of the book's rules.

[Chuck Sims]

Art, EOG.com would be a good site to post your BOS/Mil experience. EOG stands for Eye On Gambling. BOS/Mil pays them off, I mean advertises there too. They may help to put pressure on the crooks to return the stolen money to you.

[Bill Dozer]

BetOnSports asked us to post the following to represent their position.

Forum Moderators:

Good afternoon

We have read the posts concerning our actions with customers breaking our rules and regulations on your forum (and on several other forums), and would like to respond to ensure you, and your clients, understand
(i) the reasons for our actions (as outlined on all our websites), and
(ii) that in NO WAY is BetOnSports.com or any of the BETonSPORTS Plc companies stealing anything from any client.

The reasons for our actions are as follows:

1. When the client joined BetOnSports.com and BetMill.com, the client agreed to the following Rules & Regulations on our website (for example, see http://betonsports.com/rules/):

Rule #4: The client (the "Client" or "you") will be deemed to have accepted all rules by opening an account or by placing a wager with BETonSPORTS.

Rule #16: BETonSPORTS reserves the right to void any transaction where individuals are suspected of acting in conspiracy or concert. BETonSPORTS does not honor Wagers placed by employees or agents of sports wagering groups or where there is evidence that a series of wagers each containing the same selection(s) has been placed by the same individual or syndicate.

Rule #19: Wagering from professional gambling syndicates or syndicate agents is expressly prohibited by BETonSPORTS. Any person or persons affiliated with such organizations is subject to having wagers voided and accounts closed.

Rule # 44: Bonus Policy: All bonus money and promotional money is credited immediately (pagers and/or cell phones shipped immediately), but are yours to keep only after you have met all aspects of the bonus policy. Otherwise, bonus amounts, transfer fee amounts, promotional amounts, and/or pager and cell phone costs will be deducted from your account prior to any withdrawal being processed. If a withdrawal is made before the bonus terms are met, all bonus funds AS WELL AS any money won or lost by wagering the bonus, or part thereof, will be forfeited.

Rule # 46: Eligibility for Bonuses is entirely at the discretion of BETonSPORTS.


In NO WAY is BetOnSports.com or BETonSPORTS Plc stealing anything from any client:

Any client that breaks one or more of the Rules & Regulations above, can be stopped from playing with any BETonSPORTS book. In which case the client will be paid out his deposit and ALL WINNINGS directly associated with his deposit.

In Summary, it is clear to BetOnSports.com and BETonSPORTS Plc that any client who joins, breaks our Rules & Regulations, will have their account closed BUT will be treated fairly on exit.

Thank you for your time,

Management
BETonSPORTS, Plc

[tacomax]

Good job, Bill. That clears everything up.

[Bill Dozer]

Based on the facts agreed upon by all parties, the quoted rules are irrelevant to the player's situation.

Rule 16 & 19, which are from BetonSports.com and exist in different form on BetMill, are subjective and state that the book may use its opinion to confiscate funds.

"void any transaction where individuals are suspected of acting in conspiracy or concert."

Suspected of?


Wagering from professional gambling syndicates or syndicate agents is expressly prohibited by BETonSPORTS.

What is a syndicate and who decides who is one?

If you buy Jim Feist's picks are you a syndicate? Does the book usually give 9 reload bonuses to "syndicates"?

[tacomax]

Originally Posted by Bill Dozer

Does the book usually give 9 reload bonuses to "syndicates"?

They will if he keeps losing.

It's obvious they knew what he was up to and pulled the plug once he hit his winner. Although I'm sure that might just be a total coincidence.

[Mudcat]

They might as well have just said.



FORUM MODERATORS,

We sure wish you would believe we aren't stealing. That would be just great as far as we're concerned. We don't have a response to anything the player has said so we're going to quote some random rules with no attempt to explain the relevance and hope you're stupid enough to be dazzled by that.


I'm perfectly willing to listen to BETonSPORTS, but they're going to have to say something.

Until they do, I consider this situation to be theft.

[Chuck Sims]

What BetOnSports is trying to say is that they reserve the right to steal your money once it is in their hands.

I take it that when the player lost $23,000 leading up to the theft, he was playing by the rules?

[Halifax]

Forum Moderators:

Good afternoon

We have read the posts concerning our actions with customers breaking our rules and regulations on your forum (and on several other forums), and would like to respond to ensure you, and your clients, understand
(i) the reasons for our actions (as outlined on all our websites), and
(ii) that in NO WAY is BetOnSports.com or any of the BETonSPORTS Plc companies stealing anything from any client.

The reasons for our actions are as follows:

1. When the client joined BetOnSports.com and BetMill.com, the client agreed to the following Rules & Regulations on our website (for example, see http://betonsports.com/rules/):

Rule #4: The client (the "Client" or "you") will be deemed to have accepted all rules by opening an account or by placing a wager with BETonSPORTS.

Rule #16: BETonSPORTS reserves the right to void any transaction where individuals are suspected of acting in conspiracy or concert. BETonSPORTS does not honor Wagers placed by employees or agents of sports wagering groups or where there is evidence that a series of wagers each containing the same selection(s) has been placed by the same individual or syndicate.

Rule #19: Wagering from professional gambling syndicates or syndicate agents is expressly prohibited by BETonSPORTS. Any person or persons affiliated with such organizations is subject to having wagers voided and accounts closed.

Rule # 44: Bonus Policy: All bonus money and promotional money is credited immediately (pagers and/or cell phones shipped immediately), but are yours to keep only after you have met all aspects of the bonus policy. Otherwise, bonus amounts, transfer fee amounts, promotional amounts, and/or pager and cell phone costs will be deducted from your account prior to any withdrawal being processed. If a withdrawal is made before the bonus terms are met, all bonus funds AS WELL AS any money won or lost by wagering the bonus, or part thereof, will be forfeited.

Rule # 46: Eligibility for Bonuses is entirely at the discretion of BETonSPORTS.


In NO WAY is BetOnSports.com or BETonSPORTS Plc stealing anything from any client:

Any client that breaks one or more of the Rules & Regulations above, can be stopped from playing with any BETonSPORTS book. In which case the client will be paid out his deposit and ALL WINNINGS directly associated with his deposit.

In Summary, it is clear to BetOnSports.com and BETonSPORTS Plc that any client who joins, breaks our Rules & Regulations, will have their account closed BUT will be treated fairly on exit.

Thank you for your time,

Management
BETonSPORTS, Plc

What a complete load of garbage.

#4. Yeah, OK.

#16 Syndicates, Conspiracy, Collusion ... Not Bloody Likely ... a convenient excuse that a book can use at any time ... the reality of the situation, however, when 10 big bets come in on the same team in the space of 5 minutes, is that their lazy-assed linesman has left a scalpable line available to be bet, and you have 9 unrelated scalpers and 1 value bettor hitting that line for big bucks ... a lot of people betting a lot of money on the same team at the same time, but hardly a syndicate, since in most instances, these 10 people probably don't even know each other.

#19 See my response to #16.

#44 Many books have rules similar to this, and on the surface, it's not an unfair rule ... because it's referring to situations where THE PLAYER INITIATES A WITHDRAWAL ... not situations where the book decides to kick the player out. At the very least, the book should pay the player his winnings PLUS a pro-rated share of the bonus (based on how much rollover the player has completed) if THE BOOK makes the decision to kick the player out. Obviously, if it was up to the player, he wouldn't be making a withdrawal and would still be playing at the book, so this rule is not applicable in this situation.

#46 " Eligibility for Bonuses is entirely at the discretion of BETonSPORTS." ... again, many books have this rule ... and again, there's nothing inherently wrong with this rule. The problem is, this rule is applicable to current and future bonuses that a book may or may not decide to give to a player, NOT ON BONUSES ALREADY GIVEN.

----------

This is one giant tumble backwards that this book has taken, after 2 years of clawing their way up the hill.

[SBR_John]

Chuck you say a lot without any wasted words. Plus, you have been right all along.

Thanks Halifax. One of the best posts I've seen and I've seen a few.

Isn't funny how this player was a whale after making ten ...thats 10 straight deposits for $23,000 and went from the VIP Whale Club to being a syndicate in a matter of days!?!?! Shocking.

[Brick Tamland]

Originally Posted by SBR_John

Thanks Halifax. One of the best posts I've seen and I've seen a few.

i guess theres nothin wrong with 2nd best so here goes...
this is fackin horse sheet!!

[Uncle B]

crappy situation for sure.


hope enough pressure is put on BoS to make this right...

as is, this just reeks.



Halifax, great post.... You nailed it.

[Doug]

I think the guy will get paid.

[natrass]

Originally Posted by Mudcat

They might as well have just said.



FORUM MODERATORS,

We sure wish you would believe we aren't stealing. That would be just great as far as we're concerned. We don't have a response to anything the player has said so we're going to quote some random rules with no attempt to explain the relevance and hope you're stupid enough to be dazzled by that.


I'm perfectly willing to listen to BETonSPORTS, but they're going to have to say something.

Until they do, I consider this situation to be theft.

Just my thoughts.

I think the facts are bad enough.

Why do books then compound this by spouting BS.

Who is this going to fool? Surely nobody.

Dread to think what would happen without forums like this.

They have to pay obviously ... so,my advice, just apologise (you cant explain it, so dont try) and dont do it again.

[Patrick McIrish]

Unreal.

[Mudcat]

Originally Posted by natrass

I think the facts are bad enough.

Why do books then compound this by spouting BS.

That is exactly the effect this little missive from BoS had for me. It compounded things. I feel worse about them than before I read it.

[hanco21]

I personally have had no problems with Betonsports. But this is totally uncalled for, I have around $400 in there and after reading this I want to close my account. Thanks for the heads up on the situation.

[SBR_John]

SBR, with the player's permission, will file a formal complaint with the Antigua Gaming Board. We will make it known that we believe BOS has violated the terms and spirit of their Antigua Gaming License. We will encourage players to follow up with email voicing their opinions to the Antigua gaming office.

http://www.antiguagaming.gov.ag/

[Terris]

Btw anyone reading the thread at EOG?
What a good decision it was to ban raiders...even in this aweful case he is shilling for BoS. This guy is such a pain in the ass to read, its funny and painful at the same time lol.

[Mudcat]

Originally Posted by Terris

Btw anyone reading the thread at EOG?
What a good decision it was to ban raiders...even in this aweful case he is shilling for BoS. This guy is such a pain in the ass to read, its funny and painful at the same time lol.

Even without seeing that thread, I have seen enough of Raiders' act to agree that banning was a good idea.

There is something wrong with that guy. He's not just a shill. He has a pathological condition where he actually believes himself. I saw some weird examples before he was banned here.

I don't know whether to say he is weak-minded for not having the common sense and self-restraint to stop short of getting banned from forums (and therefore cut off from large groups of potential marks), or to admire how he stands up for his convictions (even if those convictions are pathological lies.)

[joe blow]

Can somebody explan this situation to me like i'm a 4 year old.What did they say happened???He bet the same game as alot of wiseguys on the game he won???
Is there something wrong with making a deposit and betting the deposit and the bonus on one time???

I just don't get what they are even trying to say???

[tacomax]

Originally Posted by Mudcat

There is something wrong with that guy. He's not just a shill. He has a pathological condition where he actually believes himself. I saw some weird examples before he was banned here.

That's the funniest thing.

If BoS decreed that the world wasn't round but it was actually triangular then you can bet your last dollar that he'd be all over the forums, trying his best to overturn scientific theory.

The worst part is that if I was running a book, the last person in the world I would want to be speaking up on my behalf is a scammer who doubles up as a pathological liar. Maybe I'm just funny like that.

[Halifax]

wil at The Rx ....

wilheim
Head Mod

Assasin, according to BetMill management there is evidence of two players acting in concert (one is Artie) that natrually both sides look at differently. Maybe Artie will post exactly what happened.

wil..

Art:

This was posted at the Rx, and similar insinuations were made at other websites.

Care to comment on this statement ? Is there any truth to it ?

[David]

Originally Posted by joe blow

Can somebody explan this situation to me like i'm a 4 year old.What did they say happened???He bet the same game as alot of wiseguys on the game he won???
Is there something wrong with making a deposit and betting the deposit and the bonus on one time???

I just don't get what they are even trying to say???

From what I understand, they are basically saying that the player is a professional and thus they believe that they have a right to confiscate his funds.

[Patrick McIrish]

Originally Posted by Terris

Btw anyone reading the thread at EOG?
What a good decision it was to ban raiders....

Absolutely right. Raiders will carry his own personal agenda into things and use that as to how to rule in the future. Not only when he can get paid is his mind already made up, but if someone has angered him in the past he will automatically go against that person regardless of what the merits of the new case are. In short he is far from ever being objective, he's usually hanging around trying to get even with someone.

All he is doing is getting in the way again over there. If he didn't suck up to EOG he would have been banned from that place long ago too.

[Halifax]

Originally Posted by David

From what I understand, they are basically saying that the player is a professional and thus they believe that they have a right to confiscate his funds.

Not exactly.

I think with their most recent position, they're trying to say that he's a "syndicate" player ... working in concert with other player(s) ... although they really haven't offered up any evidence of this ... and apparently limits haven't been circumvented, so it should be a non-issue anyway, even if he was betting the same game as a buddy.