[Illusion]

He was killed in a bombing along with one of his top henchmen just a few hours ago.

[uncleben]

that's a good news!!!

[BuddyBear]

does not mean anything in the grand scheme....new guy will emerge....these terror networks are deep and extensive stretching across the globe. Zarquawi is just a figure head....

Just like the U.S. promised everyone that now that Bin Laden and Aymen Al-zarquawi that would slow down the insurgency....

Just like when S. Hussain was caught that U.S. told us that would be a big blow to the insurgency....

Just like every high figure Al-Queada who was captured or killed we were told would derail the insurgency....

Even Bush this morning noted that "We have tough days ahead of us in Iraq that will require the continuing patience of the American people."

The only thing that will slow down the insurgency is the U.S. withdrawal of troops....not the killing of some guys in hiding....

Take everything the U.S. gvmt says with a grain of salt...

[SBR_John]

He was one sick mofo.

[freebie]

to be honest. US is losing this Middle Eastern war. And I don't think they will win.

They lost at VietNam and they will lose this one like every other one (somalia).

[freebie]

How can you win a war when a US soldier shoots someone.

US soldiers get prosecuted for shooting. so what's the point of having a war over there if you can shoot?

[Seattle Slew]

Exactly. I think it means nothing. Plus, you forgot the spin the U.S. put out when Saddam's sons were killed and they said that would slow the insurgency. Or the elections....Or a new government selected.....


[QUOTE=BuddyBear]does not mean anything in the grand scheme....new guy will emerge....these terror networks are deep and extensive stretching across the globe. Zarquawi is just a figure head....

Just like when S. Hussain was caught that U.S. told us that would be a big blow to the insurgency....

Just like every high figure Al-Queada who was captured or killed we were told would derail the insurgency....

[scottyy11]

does not mean anything in the grand scheme....new guy will emerge....these terror networks are deep and extensive stretching across the globe. Zarquawi is just a figure head....

Just like the U.S. promised everyone that now that Bin Laden and Aymen Al-zarquawi that would slow down the insurgency....

Just like when S. Hussain was caught that U.S. told us that would be a big blow to the insurgency....

Just like every high figure Al-Queada who was captured or killed we were told would derail the insurgency....

Even Bush this morning noted that "We have tough days ahead of us in Iraq that will require the continuing patience of the American people."

The only thing that will slow down the insurgency is the U.S. withdrawal of troops....not the killing of some guys in hiding....

Take everything the U.S. gvmt says with a grain of salt...

nothing will derail terrorism....................terrorism has existed since the beginning of time. Thats the beauty of the war on terror...............it can go on forever till we are all locked safely away in our homes and video monitored 24/7 for are own safety........

[slash]

He was one sick mofo.

And Bush is one sick mofo.

[Lucas]

I am happy!
USD is rising and gas is cheaper.

[SBR_John]

Its hard to believe these guys can walk around for so long with a $25,000,000 bounty on their head. Someone gave him up and the fast movers were called in. Jesse James met the same fate for a $500 bounty. Frigging inflation!

[SBR_John]

And Bush is one sick mofo.

I might be a Texan but as I said here many months ago I'm all for US troops returning to their bases. Our soliders accomplished their mission and now the Iraqi's must accomplish theirs. We can not be their police force. Bring'em home.

[DamianDunlap]

we cant just pull out and leave the Iraqi people hanging, then iran will run over and take over. Before we pull out. we have to make sure the people is safe or the iraqi army can hold there own.

[SBR_John]

Then we need to send our police forces over there not our marines and ground infantry. Our soliders are trained to fight wars. Move them to Kuwait, give air support and training but there is no war left to fight. If the Iraqis want to have a civil war we sure cant prevent that only make it worse.

[Bullajami]

The armed forces of the United States are trained to fight insurgencies as well as the government-backed militaries of other countries. Much more time is spent training to fight "other armies" because the risk potential is greater from that type of adversary, but there is training for the counter-insurgency mission also.

The wisdom of that mission is debatable, but the U.S. broke Iraq, so the U.S. should probably hang around and try to fix it. Is this possible? I think it is.

There are two large impediments to this. The largest is that the Sunnis are really nervous about living under a representative government when the majority of the population is Shia. They realize that the U.S. is currently making the Shias be nice and fair, but they also know the US will eventually go home. They fear that the Shia will abuse them when the US is no longer restraining the Shia, and many Sunnis are therefore reluctant to cooperate with the central government in Baghdad.

The second, and more immediate, problem is that Al Qaida is fully aware of the above-mentioned issue, and has focused their efforts on perpetuating the instability in the Sunni heartland of Al Anbar province. AQ is busily destroying civil infrastructure, killing locals who cooperate with US forces, planting roadside IEDs to attack US Forces, etc. The Sunnis hate the AQ more than they hate US occupation, but are becoming somewhat frustrated by the US's slow and methodical approach to combatting AQ. Many local Sunni militias/vigilante groups have sprung up to fight AQ, and they leave US forces alone. Instead they prefer to kick in the doors at AQ houses and shoot everyone in the head. While this is somewhat helpful in the short term, it's not going to help the Government of Iraq in the long term to have armed Sunni militias running around Al Anbar province.

What will make Moustafa the Sunni Iraqi want to cooperate with the central government and live peacefully?

Prosperity.

By way of example, I think there are quite a few buffoons holding offices in my government. Truly, I think there are some unbelievable idiots there. However, I also have 3 cars, 5 televisions and 20 extra pounds of "I'm-not-starving-this-year" sitting on top of my belt. I am unlikely to start a revolution to rid myself of these imbeciles in Washington. It's unlikely to be in my best interests to upset that apple cart.

When Moustafa the Sunni is contemplating whether to get his son the X-box or PlayStation 3 for Ramadan - we win.

Iraq is awash in valuable resources. The US needs only to secure and maintain stability for prosperity to grow. Al Qaida must prevent this by perpetuating the instability until the US grows weary and leaves.

[rolemand]

And Bush is one sick mofo.

You're correct. Reggie's moves are unbelievable. That game against Fresno State was unreal.

[SBR_John]

rolemand LOL.. toook me a second.

Man that was a good post Bullajami!

[isetcap]

Yes, Bullajami shows us the the matter is indeed a bit more intricate than the layperson is able or willing to comprehend.

[isetcap]

But Hamas deplored the killing, describing Zarqawi as a casualty of a crusade against Arabs and Muslims. Hamas said it mourned the insurgent as a "martyr of the [Muslim Arab] nation."

[BuddyBear]

The U.S. is done and have been defeated soundly in Iraq by any objective measure.....

As usual, our trusted government leaders (who many continue to worship on here as godlike individuals) continue to "promise victory" and "victory is right around the corner" and "we are good and they are bad" rhetoric which seems to disturbingly resonate with some people on here....umm if you believe anything your gvmnt is telling you about Iraq you are brainwashed.

Iraq is a mess and it's only getting worse....can anyone see it getting better? The U.S. imperliastic attitude and stupid public have allowed such nonsense to happen.

Everyday, on average, more than 2 U.S. soldiers are dying and scores of others are wonded seriously...and the attitude by some is that we should continue to be there. Here is a tip....the U.S. forces are a magnet for the insurgency......the U.S. should just admit they lost and Iraq is out of control and beyond their repair. There is no shame in losing they gave it their best. If you really support the troops like many of you say you do then you would be calling for their immeidate return here.

Hopefully these members of our government are tried for war crimes and sent to a jail cell where they belong.

[Seattle Slew]

I agree 100 percent with your analysis. Victory the way we want it is not possible. The troops have done their job, which was to get Saddam Hussein out. They cannot improve the situation over there and they cannot control this insurgency.

Unfortunately, I don't see anything changing as far as troop levels. This nonsense about "reducing" troop levels has been going on for 2 years with no reductions. There will be no reductions in troops, likely, until 2008 when a new president takes office, we admit we can't do any more in Iraq, and pull out. Meanwhile, Bush will be in Crawford, Texas, telling Fox News "we should stay the course. The new president is making a mistake." Right.

[QUOTE=BuddyBear]The U.S. is done and have been defeated soundly in Iraq by any objective measure.....

[SBR_John]

Everyday, on average, more than 2 U.S. soldiers are dying and scores of others are wonded seriously...and the attitude by some is that we should continue to be there. Here is a tip....the U.S. forces are a magnet for the insurgency......the U.S. should just admit they lost and Iraq is out of control and beyond their repair.

I don't think we lost at all. We defeated the Iraqi military and drove out the biggest mass murderer since Hitler. That was our goal. The Iraqi's should be free to set up their own deal and if they want a good ole civil war then ok, smoke'em if you got'em. We had one right?

[Ganchrow]

I don't think we lost at all. We defeated the Iraqi military and drove out the biggest mass murderer since Hitler. That was our goal. The Iraqi's should be free to set up their own deal and if they want a good ole civil war then ok, smoke'em if you got'em. We had one right?

As I recall, our goal was originally to flush Iraq of WMDs while ridding the world of terrorism. It's great that we got rid of Hussein (who ultimately was a horrible dictator first enabled by the United States) but claiming that that had been the original goal of this exercise is simply untrue.

I think it's clear that the Iraqis as a whole don;t want a "good old civil war" it's just the country has become so destabilized by the resulting power vacuum. The Law of Unintended Consequences is hard at work here and we as a nation need to take responsibility for each every one of those of consequences. We can't just point to Iraq and proclaim our munificence for having "liberated" the nation but then in the same breath claim that what's happened since isn't our fault ...

[scottyy11]

john if you look at the number of iraq civillians dead from US bombings and those that continue to die daily from the civil war like activity it seems a mass murderer has just been replaced by more murder not to mention the rates of cancer and birth defects from depleted uranium.

I can not determine if this is a victory or loss when I don't believe the US government has told us the real motivation of this attack. Saddam was a mad man but there are probably worse things happening in China but as long as they keep filling walmart shelves with their slave labor items will all be happy

[BuddyBear]

I don't think we lost at all. We defeated the Iraqi military and drove out the biggest mass murderer since Hitler. That was our goal. The Iraqi's should be free to set up their own deal and if they want a good ole civil war then ok, smoke'em if you got'em. We had one right?

John are you implicating the U.S.....That mass murderer was a great friend and ally of the U.S. even when his atrocities were revealed....in fact, Bush I called and congratulated him on one of his massacres. Didn't the U.S. work hand in hand with Saddam and provide him with weapons and support and the material for WMD or have you forgotten (or probably were never even aware)....

John, no offense, but you seem like a lost sheep when it comes to believing your gvmnt...seems like you believe anything they say at face value.

[Seattle Slew]

I think our goal was to find and destroy the weapons of mass destruction sites we said existed, and overthrow Saddam at the same time. Remember, Rumsfeld said "we will be greeted as liberators, with open arms, by the Iraqi people." Didn't happen.

The U.S. military thought this would be the same operation as in Afghanistan. Limited casaulties with occasional violence as the new government takes over. It turned out to be nothing like Afghanistan.

Even though I'm critical of our Iraq mission, I think we did a pretty good job in Afghanistan securing the country after the invasion, all things considering. If we just stayed there, we might have had a better chance at getting bin Laden.

Remember, nobody knew who al-Zawqari was until we invaded Iraq. Basically, we created this terrorist and now are celebrating taking him out. Seems out of whack.

I don't think we lost at all. We defeated the Iraqi military and drove out the biggest mass murderer since Hitler. That was our goal. The Iraqi's should be free to set up their own deal and if they want a good ole civil war then ok, smoke'em if you got'em. We had one right?

[Seattle Slew]

Our working with Saddam came mostly in the 1980s in the Reagon administation. Rumsfeld even went to Iraq and met with Saddam. The video of them shaking hands has been widely seen. This was because even though we knew Saddam was crazy, he hated Iran, and so did we. So we said "go for it" when he started that war that ran from 1980-88.

I don't think the first President Bush ever talked directly to Saddam even before he was president and headed the CIA. Obviously, the current President Bush has never spoken to Saddam. I'm confused about the congratulations call.


[QUOTE=BuddyBear]in fact, Bush I called and congratulated him on one of his massacres. Didn't the U.S. work hand in hand with Saddam and provide him with weapons and support and the material for WMD or have you forgotten (or probably were never even aware)....