[gotsteam]

OK so there is no site that you want to highlight as better than SBR with ratings and recommended list, not even one? Yep, thought so. OK, good luck steamer. We are in Ezcazu if you want to come by and see the operation. You are invited.

John,

Thanks for the invite, have been to the office already

[SBR_John]

Back to the thread for a minute. I believe one confiscation complaint against BOS is unfortunately at an impasse. We strongly disagree with BetOnSports management rather ruthless justification for confiscating money that clearly belongs to the player.

We will encourage the player to tell his story here and on sites that accept BetOnSports ad money. I'm sure the rest of their paid army of Watchingdog sites will back the player and demand justice or remove them at once from their sites.

[gotsteam]

Back to the thread for a minute. I believe one confiscation complaint against BOS is unfortunately at an impasse. We strongly disagree with BetOnSports management rather ruthless justification for confiscating money that clearly belongs to the player.

We will encourage the player to tell his story here and on sites that accept BetOnSports ad money. I'm sure the rest of their paid army of Watchingdog sites will back the player and demand justice or remove them at once from their sites.

Excellent.

That is how it is supposed to be.

I also believe a warning should be issued and a ratings downgrade appropriate

[Chuck Sims]

I would love to see this player post his BOS complaint at sites like EOG, The RX, and MajorWager. He may get some justice if he goes public. If more people do not speak out, BOS will continue to rip off players. Whats worse, they may start buying more sportsbooks. Somebody has to take a stand.

[SBR_John]

Gentlemen..You beat BOS to 3 consecutive ##s you are gone..The inner circle gambling establishment knows this..Its no secret..If you are in the game, stay away..If not, know what you got coming to you..Meanwhile with all the BS about BOS..75% of the books offshore would love to have 20% of their customer base..The beep goes on..

You know, they can choose who they deal to and thats clearly stated in their Terms of Service(TOS), so I don't have a problem with that.

What is very troubling is that they will resolve a dispute including confiscating a player's money, as you will see, by making up rules that are not in their TOS.

If they want to punitively punish a player then spell out what the sanctions are in advance in the Terms of Service.

[Bill Dozer]

You know, they can choose who they deal to and thats clearly stated in their Terms of Service(TOS), so I don't have a problem with that.

What is very troubling is that they will resolve a dispute including confiscating a player's money, as you will see, by making up rules that are not in their TOS.

If they want to punitively punish a player then spell out what the sanctions are in advance in the Terms of Service.

Right, they claim they are going to fix their rules but that's not going to help this player.

The odd part about this is that the BOS account was limited after one phone bet and a subsequent internet bet. The player is immediately in a bad spot...

BetOnSports (SBR rating C), who has reduced his limits from $10,000 to $1,000; thereby increasing the amount of wagers he must make to complete his rollover from 9 to 90. The book has taken this action after two winning plays, despite the player’s willingness to bet normal limits via phone only. Management states that if the player refuses to accept the new wagering limit BOS will remove the bonus and 33% of the two winning wagers he made after this initial deposit.

The next day they see he has a BetMill account with 10 bonuses, 9 being reloads on new money, and they prune his balance up and send back whats left.

They really punish him once they find the weeks of losses and reload incentives.

Mgt. is making procedure up as they go along. Hopefully they can come to a compromise and tie up their policy loose ends. The player would love to give back the bonuses and leave both books with the winnings but they refuse.

[Terris]

nice to see them downgraded ^^

[Mudcat]

nice to see them downgraded ^^

Agree 100%.

[JC]

Can we get a summary of exact deposits, bets, money confiscated etc. from both the BOS and Millenium accounts?

This episode should not surprise anyone. This is a book that stole $500,000 from a player just because they felt like it.

[SBR_John]

If this is the way "new" BetOnSports is going to operate then I would take a shot in the dark and say the downgrade process has only just begun.

This is simply making up rules on the fly.

[Terris]

could be interesting for sure - atm they are a 10/10 at tow, and a "sponsor" on all other forums :clubbed:

[tacomax]

I'm surprised that Fishhead hasn't made an appearance yet.

[TLD]

“The player would love to give back the bonuses and leave both books with the winnings but they refuse.”


If that means: “Because even that is better than having them steal it all,” then I certainly understand his position.

If it means: “Because that would be a fair and equitable compromise,” then I disagree completely.

I would definitely take this to the sites where this family of books advertises. One of the (few) advantages to their presence on such sites is the owners and moderators are desperate to create the illusion they are an honest book, so they’ll bend over backwards to get something like this squared away. So it’s important leverage.

[Lucas]

They don't rip people off.

...few days ago here http://forum.sportsbookreview.com/sh...ad.php?t=11469
I am confused!

[Doug]

This sounds pretty bad. I for one will stay away from all BOS books from now on.

[Mudcat]

You are making a good point there, Lucas. That Sportsbook of the Day - Millenium (and the clones) thread where you got that quote was a poor idea on my part from the start. I was trying to do too much with it.

I was trying to talk about all those books that are now clones like they are one thing but, because Millenium has a different history than the others - and because things are still changing - it was just a bad idea.

Those books that used to be the VO Group have never been scam books. And I have had many big payouts from them - including many since they've been under BOS - with no problem. I still have lots of money in one. I also haven't heard complaints about Millenium sportsbook like I do about BetOnSports sportsbook.

But the situation is muddled and that thread was a bad idea and I will do some editing to point that out. Not my finest hour.

[SBR_John]

We have been telling those that write in because they saw a bonus they like that if they see something they like they should go for it. BOS had several upgrades here and we like the progress they had made. Now this. Back to the past tactics, makes you really wonder...

[Lucas]

You are making a good point there, Lucas. That Sportsbook of the Day - Millenium (and the clones) thread where you got that quote was a poor idea on my part from the start. I was trying to do too much with it.

I was trying to talk about all those books that are now clones like they are one thing but, because Millenium has a different history than the others - and because things are still changing - it was just a bad idea.

Those books that used to be the VO Group have never been scam books. And I have had many big payouts from them - including many since they've been under BOS - with no problem. I still have lots of money in one. I also haven't heard complaints about Millenium sportsbook like I do about BetOnSports sportsbook.

But the situation is muddled and that thread was a bad idea and I will do some editing to point that out. Not my finest hour.

I was just going to send money there. I will not Thanks for update. You are one of the few people I decided to trust in this Babylon.

[Mudcat]

I'm glad Lucas.

I've got quite a bit of money at V-Wager and I'm not really worried - it has been profitable dealing with those books so far - but I should really edit that thread to put more emphasis on the risk of BetOnSports.

[SBR_John]

Just so everyone knows. While it is true that we take these public after we have tried to resolve them, we have not given up on this case. We will appeal to the COO tomorrow and we will ask our friends at the Rx for help.

I still think we can resolve this dispute.

[JC]

You will probably resolve this. But you have to wonder why it happened in the first place?

If he didn't know about the forums he would be SOL.

[jason]

This story is as scary as it gets. The player was welcomed back with reloads 9 straight times? And then they "confiscate" his money when he wins?
How is this book different from the F- scams that no one will touch, aside from the fact that they only do this to SOME of their players?

I am withdrawing everything I have there and waiting to see policies posted and this situation resolved before I place another wager there.

[Halifax]

You know, they can choose who they deal to and thats clearly stated in their Terms of Service(TOS), so I don't have a problem with that.

What is very troubling is that they will resolve a dispute including confiscating a player's money, as you will see, by making up rules that are not in their TOS.

If they want to punitively punish a player then spell out what the sanctions are in advance in the Terms of Service.

Obviously, the ability to confiscate winnings is not written into their terms of service ... but whether it is or isn't written into the TOS, your attitude here is a bit disturbing to me.

Are you saying that if they had written "We have the right to confiscate winnings if we deem the player to be sharp" into their TOS, that you would give them a free pass in a case like this ?

It wasn't too long ago that you, Shrink, Roberto, and the rest of the crew thought the "sharp / professional" rule was completely bogus, and even if a book had that rule written into their TOS, that it shouldn't be enforceable.

Now, you seem to be hinting that confiscating winnings would be semi-kosher, as long as BOS had something written into their TOS indicating such.

That's not a good approach.

[Chuck Sims]

I can tell you first hand Millennium rips people off. They stole my money. Respected poster "Krackman" has also posted on the forums that Millennium stole his money too. Stealing money out of peoples accounts are the norm at Millennium. They are crooks. Spread the word.

[SBR_John]

Are you saying that if they had written "We have the right to confiscate winnings if we deem the player to be sharp" into their TOS, that you would give them a free pass in a case like this ?

I'm saying that no one would play there if they had a rule like that. Yes, if thats what they intend to do then write it in the TOS so players know they will be ripped off.

We settle disputes by rules the books establish and we expect them to follow their own one-sided rules. In this case, they made up a rule.

[TLD]

Some rules are unconscionable. That (hypothetical) rule would be such.

Would it be less bad than confiscating the money without such a warning? Yes. Would it make it OK? Absolutely not.

Confiscation in accordance with such a rule would be a ‘D’ book type move. Confiscation without such a rule would be an ‘F’ book type move.

[Lucas]

Confiscation in accordance with such a rule would be a ‘D’ book type move. Confiscation without such a rule would be an ‘F’ book type move.

I agree with the first part, but this? If a bookie is "no pay" should be F
It is the main purpose of bookie-to pay!
If I understand to John, the way the SBR have chosen is: finding inconsistency between the rules and behavior. It has nothing to do with the fact if the bookie is paying or not. This is the best way how to show them, that they are doing something wrong and they do not deserve good rating.
In the hypothetical case if bookie has "scam statement" in TOS, there is nothing to solve and the reason of rating such bookie is obvious.
That is my opinion.

[SBR_John]

Its leverage. Of course BOS would never write in their TOS something like: 7.A. BOS reserves the right to confiscate a players' funds if we suspect they are sharp. Our position is you can not make up rules. If its not in your TOS you have no business confiscating the money. Our position has fallen on deaf ears so far. But the effort will continue to find someone at BOS who is honest and can reason.

[Art]

I am now starting a new thread with the actual details.