[jjgold]

Are not gamblers

Please do not call yourself gamblers and try to justify your one of us. I can care less if you do this but get furious when these guys call themsleves sharp and sports bettors.

These guys are good math guys period.

[Mudcat]

LOL!! Poor jj.

[freebie]

I don't scalp or middle, cause I suck at it. If you can make money and risk your dough on middling. I don't see what's wrong with it. As long as you're risking money scalping/middling

[Ganchrow]

Originally Posted by jjgold

[Scalper/Middlers] are not gamblers

Please do not call yourself gamblers and try to justify your one of us. I can care less if you do this but get furious when these guys call themsleves sharp and sports bettors.

These guys are good math guys period.

Who wants to gamble anyway? Personally, I hate gambling. To me it's just silly, boring, and stupid. I do like making money however, and to that end I'll take as may positive EV bets as my time allows.

And, while we're at it, what's so bad being about "good at math"? I take slight offense at your implication. Hope you aren't as averse to math as you clearly are to proper grammer and diction.

[hoppa_long]

Originally Posted by jjgold

Are not gamblers

Please do not call yourself gamblers and try to justify your one of us. I can care less if you do this but get furious when these guys call themsleves sharp and sports bettors.

These guys are good math guys period.

LMAO ...

[magnavox]

If this is the case add to the list all value bettors, because a middle is just a usual bet with odds of 20-1 for a game to land on a specific number.

[raiders72001]

Scalpers aren't Sharps. It's two totally different things even though there's nothing wrong with scalping.

[raiders72001]

Middlers aren't Sharps either. Doesn't take much skill to know that when the line is 3 that if you have +3.5 and -2.5 that there's value as this hits 10% of the time.

Sharp's opinions are respected. Guys could care less what a scalper bets.

[raiders72001]

Boy am I sharp. Look at all the scalps I just found.



Event Bet Type Return Bet 1 Bet 2 Bet 3
1 Adelaide 36ers - Sydney Kings
Basketball, Australia, NBL 2005/2006
23/09/05 11:30 Moneyline 5.88 % Adelaide 36ers
Evens

bet365 Sydney Kings
125

Centrebet
2 Olympique Lyonnais - RC Lens
Football, France, 1. Division 2005/2006
22/09/05 19:45 Over Under 3.76 % Over 2.5
145

Globet Under 2.5
-125

Macauslot
3 Columbus Blue Jackets - Detroit Red Wings
Ice Hockey, United States, NHL PreSeason 2005/2006
23/09/05 00:00 Moneyline 3.28 % Columbus Blue Jackets
125

5Dimes Detroit Red Wings
-110

BetRoyal
4 Real Zaragoza - Deportivo La Coruna
Football, Spain, Primera Division 2005/2006
24/09/05 19:00 1x2 3.01 % Real Zaragoza
195

Macauslot Draw
235

MultiBet Deportivo La Coruna
200

Unibet
Stan James
MrBookmaker
5 New York Mets - Florida Marlins
Baseball, United States, World Series Championship 2005
23/09/05 00:10 Asian Handicap 1.78 % New York Mets -2.5
400

Carib Sport Florida Marlins -2.5
-360

Betcom
6 IK Start Kristiansand - Vålerenga IF
Football, Norway, Tippeligaen 2005
25/09/05 19:15 1x2 1.27 % IK Start Kristiansand
185

NordicBet Draw
240

Centrebet Vålerenga IF
192

Centrebet
7 Ghana U17 - China U17
Football, Peru, World Championship 2005 Group A U17
23/09/05 00:15 1x2 0.98 % Ghana U17
130

Interwetten Draw
260

Stan James China U17
260

Globet
8 Weston Supermare - Weymouth
Football, England, FA Cup 2005/2006
24/09/05 15:00 1x2 0.71 % Weston Supermare
239

bet365 Draw
260

Stan James Weymouth
138

Stan James
9 Ghana U17 - China U17
Football, Peru, World Championship 2005 Group A U17
23/09/05 00:15 Over Under 0.62 % Over 2.5
102

PointBet Under 2.5
Evens

Easybets
10 1. FC Köln - Hertha BSC Berlin
Football, Germany, Bundesliga 2005/2006
25/09/05 16:30 Over Under 0.49 % Over 2.5
-118

Betinternet Under 2.5
120

NordicBet
11 San Diego Chargers - New York Giants
Am. Football, United States, NFL 2005/2006
26/09/05 01:30 Moneyline 0.47 % San Diego Chargers
-225

BetDirect New York Giants
230

Carib Sport
12 Slovenia - Germany
Basketball, Europe, European Championship 2005
23/09/05 17:00 Moneyline 0.40 % Slovenia
-182

Intertops
Interwetten Germany
185

Olympic Sports
13 Mihaly Kotai - Sebastain Andres Lujan
Fighting, International, Boxing Matches
23/09/05 20:00 12 0.29 % Mihaly Kotai
-160

Parier
SportingbetUSA Sebastain Andres Lujan
162

bet365
14 Girondins Bordeaux - AC Ajaccio
Football, France, 1. Division 2005/2006
24/09/05 19:00 1x2 0.26 % Girondins Bordeaux
-118

NordicBet
Globet Draw
230

SportingOdds
Admiral
WorldBet
Sportingbet AC Ajaccio
550

Macauslot
15 Trabzonspor - Vestel Manisaspor
Football, Turkey, Super Ligi 2005/2006
23/09/05 18:00 1x2 0.24 % Trabzonspor
-250

WorldBet Draw
400

Admiral Vestel Manisaspor
1100

Stan James
16 Gamba Osaka - Kashima Antlers
Football, Japan, J-League 2005
24/09/05 11:00 Over Under 0.18 % Over 2.5
-154

Interwetten Under 2.5
155

Macauslot
17 SV Werder Bremen - TSV Bayer 04 Leverkusen
Football, Germany, Bundesliga 2005/2006
24/09/05 14:30 Over Under 0.18 % Over 2.5
-154

Betinternet Under 2.5
155

HKJC Football
Macauslot
18 OSC Lille - AS St. Etienne
Football, France, 1. Division 2005/2006
24/09/05 19:00 Over Under 0.18 % Over 2.5
155

Macauslot Under 2.5
-154

Admiral
19 Chelsea - Aston Villa
Football, England, Premier League 2005/2006
24/09/05 15:00 1x2 0.17 % Chelsea
-370

Interwetten Draw
532

Pinnacle Sports Aston Villa
1800

MrBookmaker
Unibet
20 Excelsior Virton - Koninklijke Beringen Heusden-Zolder
Football, Belgium, 2. Division 2005/2006
24/09/05 19:00 1x2 0.13 % Excelsior Virton
120

Interwetten Draw
240

MrBookmaker Koninklijke Beringen Heusden-Zolder
300

Centrebet
21 Antonio Tarver - Roy Jones Jr.
Fighting, International, Boxing Matches
02/10/05 04:00 12 0.11 % Antonio Tarver
-200

SportingbetUSA
Parier Roy Jones Jr.
201

Pinnacle Sports

[raiders72001]

You guys like that first one? 5.88% scalp.

[Pedro]

Here is philosphical question for you?

Is it called 'gambling' if you consistently win year after year?

For example, someone who looks at hundreds of different stats and compares that to the odds offered, he/she also simply looks at the propability of a win. That also just simply about mathematics, it is not magic.

How is that different from middling? Middling is not a guarenteed win, it is simply playing the propabilities; therefore, according your definition middling is also gambling.

The difference between middling and being a sharp is that the sharp looks at many different variables while the guy middling just looks at one.

Arbitrage-ing is a different story where you should be guarenteed to win hence that is not gambling.

Futhermore, I think people who do arbitrage, never call themselves gamblers and they are proud of it. People who arbitrage do use the mathematics and they don't try to beat the bookies by 'gambling' because they understand that under normal circumstances their chances of winning is very minimal in the long run. Isn't it around 2% of gamblers who can actually make a living out of this?

Pedro

[raiders72001]

Is it called 'gambling' if you consistently win year after year?

Winning year after doesn't mean you are not gambling. If I were to bet every year that the coin toss would be heads at the Super Bowl and won 4 years in a row it is gambling. The odds are 1 in 16 of that happening but winning every year doesn't mean it's not a gamble.

I would consider middlers gamblers. They are taking calculated risks and it's not guaranteed that they will win.

I still don't consider middlers and scalpers Sharps. Sharps are guys that when they place a bet a book will take notice. Books are written about the Lem Bankers and Billy Walters. These two are Sharps.

[GJMike]

I dont gamble, but it is hard to look at these numbers all day and not want to middle/scalp. I am a programmer so it goes with the territory that I am a numbers and math man. If I were to take up gambling I would scalp/middle/hedge to get the best position.

For instance, there is a 30pt favorite listed at pinnacle at -3000 on the ML, the Wynn has the other side of the game at +3500. How often is it that a 30pt favorite will lose outright? So i would probably hedge that down, and for an exposure of $125 I can win $250. That is substantially skewing the odds in my favor. I do agree with you though that if I started I still shouldnt be classified as a handicapper, cause I wouldnt know anything about either of the teams. I would just pick and win.

[GJMike]

Originally Posted by raiders72001

Winning year after doesn't mean you are not gambling. If I were to bet every year that the coin toss would be heads at the Super Bowl and won 4 years in a row it is gambling. The odds are 1 in 16 of that happening but winning every year doesn't mean it's not a gamble.

I would consider middlers gamblers. They are taking calculated risks and it's not guaranteed that they will win.

I still don't consider middlers and scalpers Sharps. Sharps are guys that when they place a bet a book will take notice. Books are written about the Lem Bankers and Billy Walters. These two are Sharps.

I agree that one of the guys you mentioned is sharp..

[jjgold]

The money you have to invest to make profits scalping is just not worth it and it is chump change

One book goes down and puts a huge dent in profits

[GJMike]

Originally Posted by jjgold

The money you have to invest to make profits scalping is just not worth it and it is chump change

One book goes down and puts a huge dent in profits

You can get it up to 7-11% on your money. That isnt a bad return. And if I were to do it it would be Vegas vs. reputable offshores.... so money-risk would be low.

[SBR_John]

seems like a lot of work to me and if you toss land based books in their then defintely a lot of work. Although running to the window to get a price before it ripens to a polish middle my help me get in shape .

[raiders72001]

Although running to the window to get a price before it ripens to a polish middle

Put more men on the job.

[Terris]

seems to me that JJ and his sister Raiders are a bit frustrated, cause they keep losing while other people use their brain when dealing with sportbooks...haha

[raiders72001]

Terris- From your posts I'd lay 50-1 that you haven't had one year thatyou profited gambling. There are some smart guys that post here but you aren't in that group Mr Wannabe.

[Terris]

funny, coming from the new forum clown. I could show some Neteller balances, but im not here for that, crap talk and judging other people like you and your pure JJ...lol

[raiders72001]

You can't show me a thing. You're all talk and know very little about gambling. Post your Neteller you fraud.

[jjgold]

Terris a negative poster and he has a right to be. I can care less what thinks and if he posts here he is a contributor and that is all that matters.

[raiders72001]

First ValueBets says he wants to bet 10k and now Terris claims to be a winning gambler.

[Terris]

back to judging other people again, as if you knew if they are successful raiders?
Poor girl, maybe its time for you to give your life an other meaning again, than talking crap and showing off on forums.

[tacomax]

What about you, raiders? How much had you won in the past year? Care to post any Neteller balances?

[raiders72001]

I have nothing to prove to the three stooges Taco, Terris and VB. Terris said that his Neteller would prove he's a winner. Of course he won't show it the same way VB didn't have the 10k he bragged about.

[Trouble Maker]

[tacomax]

So, raiders, you're happy to call others losers but not willing to prove that you're a winner? Another member of the losers club, I guess.

[raiders72001]

Lol

[Terris]

thats right, you have nothing to prove to us - we all know you are an idiot

[raiders72001]

Terris- where's the Neteller info that you are bragging about?

[Gambler7]

Originally Posted by jjgold

Are not gamblers

Please do not call yourself gamblers and try to justify your one of us. I can care less if you do this but get furious when these guys call themsleves sharp and sports bettors.

These guys are good math guys period.

jj, I thought you said one time you have to be a good math guy if youwant to be a good gambler

[BuddyBear]

Uh ho...this is starting to resemble a thread on covers.

I think JJ and Raider raise a point...a semantic one that is. I mean if you are gambling you are taking a risk. However, placing money on a game knowing you have 0 risk or very little risk may be something else.

But I still admire middlers, scalpers, arbers, and guys who know how to beat the system. Those are guys we could all learn something from.

[Razz]

Originally Posted by jjgold

Are not gamblers

Please do not call yourself gamblers and try to justify your one of us. I can care less if you do this but get furious when these guys call themsleves sharp and sports bettors.

These guys are good math guys period.

Granted, jj says a lot of things that come across as controversial, but I don't understand why anyone would take offense to this statement. He's not saying its stupid to scalp or middle, just that you are not a sharp because you do that.