[raiders72001]

Its a tough subject. You cant allow scalpers to have promotional money meant for regular players. I think the player advocate industry tries to give the books some slack on this. Scalpers patterns are pretty easy to detect. I lot of books dont mind scalpers but they sure dont want to give them money and allow them to scalp their way through the rollover.

I agree that scalpers shouldn't be given any bonuses.

[natrass]

Raiders .. I have to say, you amuse me.

[Value Bets]

Amusing ? At first i thought the same. Hes just plain IGNORANT. Him and his monopoly monies.

[jjgold]

Scalpers have actually destroyed some books

sad and true

[natrass]

Value bets .. you know that Raiders is only 17 dont you? And jj is his favourite uncle who fought in Vietnam?

Ahh, the tales jj could tell you .. raiders just loves to sit with his milk and cookies and hear the same old war stories again and again.

Has jj ever told you how he took a machine gun nest out armed only with a copy of Life magazine? Thats Raiders favourite, that one is.

[Emmdoubleu]

Originally Posted by raiders72001

I agree that scalpers shouldn't be given any bonuses.

At the risk of looking like an idiot again, what is a scalper and how does one scalp there way through a rollover period

[jjgold]

Scalpers for the most part are unsuccesful bettors

Very few have abilty to pick winners

[tacomax]

Originally Posted by natrass

Value bets .. you know that Raiders is only 17 dont you? And jj is his favourite uncle who fought in Vietnam?

Ahh, the tales jj could tell you .. raiders just loves to sit with his milk and cookies and hear the same old war stories again and again.

Has jj ever told you how he took a machine gun nest out armed only with a copy of Life magazine? Thats Raiders favourite, that one is.

That's too funny, natrass.

[SBR_John]

Emmdoubleu,
A scalper is someone who takes advantage of a line that is off at different sportsbooks and bets both sides of a game. He may see these two lines:
ABC Sportsbook Dallas -6 -108
XYZ Sportsbook Dallas -6 +110

Now if you bet $1000 on each side you will make $20.

Nothing wrong with this although it sucks the value out of the lines and takes profit away from the books which one could make an arguement hurts the average player, hurts the books ability to offer bigger bonuses. Emmdoubleu as you can see you need a ton of cash and a lot of different sportsbooks to make this work.

[Mudcat]

Originally Posted by jjgold

Scalpers for the most part are unsuccesful bettors

Very few have abilty to pick winners

That's only true in the sense that almost all bettors are unsuccessful bettors and few bettors PERIOD have the ability to pick winners.

Overall, scalpers are better at straight betting than your average dude who just caps and bets. Scalpers tend to be better with numbers, more disciplined, and have more accumulated sportsbook/line-movement knowledge than your average shmoe.

As for the assertion that they shouldn't be given bonuses, the sportsbooks seem to disagree. It's been my experience that scalpers get the same treatment as everyone else (i.e. - their bonuses dry up once they start taking payouts but if they keep losing, the books keep enticing them with bonuses to re-up.)

Personally I like the status quo but if I were to hear about a sportsbook denying bonuses to people they have labelled as scalpers, I would just shrug and say that's their prerogative.

[Emmdoubleu]

Originally Posted by SBR_John

Emmdoubleu,
A scalper is someone who takes advantage of a line that is off at different sportsbooks and bets both sides of a game. He may see these two lines:
ABC Sportsbook Dallas -6 -108
XYZ Sportsbook Dallas -6 +110

Now if you bet $1000 on each side you will make $20.

Nothing wrong with this although it sucks the value out of the lines and takes profit away from the books which one could make an arguement hurts the average player, hurts the books ability to offer bigger bonuses. Emmdoubleu as you can see you need a ton of cash and a lot of different sportsbooks to make this work.

Thanks for the knowledge

[raiders72001]

John mentioned a true scalp. Another trick used by scalping bonus whores is to take the 20% bonus from 2 books. Then they have an extra 20% cash so they play opposite sides at the two books anytime that they find a 1/2 point difference. This way they are meeting bonus requirements and have a chance to side if the line pushes on one of the two plays.

Scalpers are no where near as good as handicappers as sharps and take few chances. The only problem they have is that they will play at unsafe books to get a big bonus and will get burned if the book goes under.

[raiders72001]

There are many arbitrage <scalping> sites on the net. http://betbrain.com/ is a good one. Just hit odds then sure bets. You can make free money daily on tennis, boxing and soccer.

There's also a thing called value bets, but I don't consider it value. They take the average lines from many books and then determine value to a bet but many times they say the value is going against a Pinnacle lean and I don't feel it to be profitable.

You see many scalpers on the forums that call themselves sharps. They are not sharps and I can teach beginning bettors how to scalp in 5 minutes.

[raiders72001]

John- Can you put some type of rule up that scalpers should not be giving any gambling advice? All that they know is if they bet +120 at one book and -115 at another book that they can profit. Otherwise these guys are useless and should only ask questions but not give advice.

[raiders72001]

SBR- Do you back the scammers that scalp out bonuses or do you agree with the books that confiscate their bonus?

[pags11]

don't have much respect for guys like this...

[magnavox]

Originally Posted by raiders72001

SBR- Do you back the scammers that scalp out bonuses or do you agree with the books that confiscate their bonus?

The real issue here is that it is almost impossible to determine 100% if someone is scalping or not, thus confiscating bonuses on just a suspicion is wrong. Those chicken shit books need to watch their back and step in if they don't like player's action. And prorating bonuses is a must at the very least.

[raiders72001]

magnovox- Good points but I don't put total blame on the books although it is a nice built in excuse for them.

Watchdog sites realize how hurtful that sclaping bonus whores are to the industry and are now turning their backs to these types of bettors.

It's fine to scalp with your own money and you can make a living doing it but don't expect to get the bonuses.

[BAUS]

Originally Posted by raiders72001

It's fine to scalp with your own money and you can make a living doing it but don't expect to get the bonuses.

Says who ??

BAUS

[Terris]

JJ told him heh.
Theres enough bookies who give bonuses AND reload bonuses to almost everybody on a regular basis. But why am i arguing with those guys anyway, silly...

[raiders72001]

Baus- Some rules aren't in writing. If you play on credit you don't scalp. When you use bonuses you don't scalp.

Guy's using bonuses to scalp are going to find there bonuses confiscated more and more and the watchdog sites will have to stop protecting these type of players.

If sites such as SBR continue to back bonus whore scalpers then SBR will lose respect from the books and it'll make tougher to help legitimate players with disputes.

[EBone]

I may be asking a dumb question here but I've been accused of that before. Here goes: Raiders, why do you say that SBR is backing "bonus whore scalpers"? Is it because of some of the posters here at this forum or some other reason? Just curious.


E

[Brick Tamland]

Originally Posted by raiders72001

Baus- Some rules aren't in writing. If you play on credit you don't scalp. When you use bonuses you don't scalp.

Guy's using bonuses to scalp are going to find there bonuses confiscated more and more and the watchdog sites will have to stop protecting these type of players.

If sites such as SBR continue to back bonus whore scalpers then SBR will lose respect from the books and it'll make tougher to help legitimate players with disputes.

Most retarded post of the year nominee?

I hate the word whore (unless its Saturday night and I am real hammered (on my way).) The real whore is the book who wants to have it both ways. They need to get a new attraction because you cant pick and choose who your bonus net catches.

I saw heritage emailed their sucker list. If you dont have a sucker list that you agree to service then get out of the bonus business.

Dont scalp on credit??? Makes no sense. Why dont you just assure your agent that you will play crappy numbers??

[raiders72001]

EBone- This is just a guess but from reading the posts of others here it looks like there is an unusually high amount of scalpers here. These type of players run in to more problems than the usual gambler becasue they jump at every bonus they can get and will play at riskier books.

Because of this they need help from watchdog sites much more than the normal player. This causes problems for a player such as you that may need help. The book and watchdog have to decide if you are a bonus whore scalper or a straight gambler and deserving of the bonus.

[SBR_John]

We have backed quite a few over the years because they are the ones most likely to get in some trouble. They work lower ranked books where they can chew through a bonus and find some late moving lines.

We help with all complaints no matter who you are. Over the years we have leaned on the books to tighten up on their written rules. In the process we have helped many of so-called bonus whores recover their money.

Bottomline is we need written rules. And if a book runs a promo that is dumb, has no protective rules and gives money away then they darn sure better honor it.

[Brick Tamland]

Originally Posted by SBR_John

We have backed quite a few over the years because they are the ones most likely to get in some trouble. They work lower ranked books where they can chew through a bonus and find some late moving lines.

We help with all complaints no matter who you are. Over the years we have leaned on the books to tighten up on their written rules. In the process we have helped many of so-called bonus whores recover their money.

Bottomline is we need written rules. And if a book runs a promo that is dumb, has no protective rules and gives money away then they darn sure better honor it.

Now THAT is a "Good post by SBR John on scalpers "

[raiders72001]

Brick- Why would an agent give 100k credit to a guy at 2 books so that he can scalp. The book loses. The agent loses as this is a red figure that has to be made up. The player is guaranteed money while everyone else loses. Think before you post.

[tacomax]

If a book is having problems with (suspected) scalpers, the solution is not to try and stiff the player by deducting bonus monies or any other monies. If a player plays by the rules, they should get paid.

A book should look at why they are attracting scalpers and take measures to stop this. The easiest thing to do would be to cut limits. They might want to reduce the attractiveness of their bonuses. They even might want to make sure that they don't hang on moving lines for 2 minutes longer than the fast industry movers.

Incidentally, it would be a sad day for a watchdog site to pick and choose which players they decide to help.

[raiders72001]

Good post tacoman- One problem I see arising is that when books do take measures such as cutting limits, they catch a backlash of negative posts at the forums.

[BAUS]

Originally Posted by raiders72001

Baus- Some rules aren't in writing. If you play on credit you don't scalp. When you use bonuses you don't scalp.

Guy's using bonuses to scalp are going to find there bonuses confiscated more and more and the watchdog sites will have to stop protecting these type of players.

I think you are overstepping your boundaries here Raiders with these comments. The watchdog sites protect all players equally, and that is the way it should be. I'm a black and white type of person....I think that rules should be laid out clearly from the beginning. If there is a rule that isn't in writing, then it really isn't a rule.

Good post John.

BAUS

[Terris]

i think some guys dont realise, that a bookie still has the edge while giving out a bonus...
lets say 20% cash, 5xro on a bookie with 20 cent lines.
Do your math...(or just continue spamming in raiders case :-P)

[raiders72001]

Terris- Big advantage to the player in scalping out when they find 1/2 point differences in lines.

Baus- I wish that everything were black and white in this world but it's not. Scalpers are treated differently by books and watchdog sites no matter if they admit it or not imo.

[tacomax]

Originally Posted by SBR_John

We have backed quite a few over the years because they are the ones most likely to get in some trouble. They work lower ranked books where they can chew through a bonus and find some late moving lines.

We help with all complaints no matter who you are. Over the years we have leaned on the books to tighten up on their written rules. In the process we have helped many of so-called bonus whores recover their money.

Bottomline is we need written rules. And if a book runs a promo that is dumb, has no protective rules and gives money away then they darn sure better honor it.

Post of the month there, John. :thumbs_up

It's an attitude like that which makes SBR the best in the business.

[raiders72001]

has no protective rules and

that's why books but in the all inclusive sharp, steam, syndicate clause

[Brick Tamland]

Originally Posted by raiders72001

Brick- Why would an agent give 100k credit to a guy at 2 books so that he can scalp. The book loses. The agent loses as this is a red figure that has to be made up. The player is guaranteed money while everyone else loses. Think before you post.

Yeah Raiders, so, all sharp guys dont get credit accounts right??? and those guys who dont have accounts dont play good lines??? Maybe the agent shouldnt put the same player in Pinnacle and Playthescore.com?

A book should look at why they are attracting scalpers and take measures to stop this. The easiest thing to do would be to cut limits. They might want to reduce the attractiveness of their bonuses. They even might want to make sure that they don't hang on moving lines for 2 minutes longer than the fast industry movers.

Right. You dont see Bodog offering less or confiscating bonuses.

Raiders: Think before you post.

Talking to people like this is why your are becoming the forum douche bag.