[Fishhead]

?????????????


Thanks

[MartinBlank]

This is going to be some interesting times.

[WileOut]

The more I read the more I realize they are not going to go after the books. This is a situation where they could take out the 2 biggest poker rooms with one bullet, so they did. They don't have that kind of situation with the books. There are way too many books.

Also they would have done it all at the same time I think. Why would they give the books time to react if they were going after them too?

I'm not withdrawing a cent.

[Fishhead]

The more I read the more I realize they are not going to go after the books. This is a situation where they could take out the 2 biggest poker rooms with one bullet, so they did. They don't have that kind of situation with the books. There are way too many books.

Also they would have done it all at the same time I think. Why would they give the books time to react if they were going after them too?

I'm not withdrawing a cent.

[FuzzyDunlop]

The more I read the more I realize they are not going to go after the books. This is a situation where they could take out the 2 biggest poker rooms with one bullet, so they did. They don't have that kind of situation with the books. There are way too many books.

Also they would have done it all at the same time I think. Why would they give the books time to react if they were going after them too?

I'm not withdrawing a cent.

Couldn't be more wrong, this is not a moratorium on online gambling this is about laundering billions of dollars and thinking you are above the DOJ.

[jjgold]

none

Offshore sportsbooks are much slower and most of the big ones have no usa ties as far as banking and ownership

[jjgold]

Couldn't be more wrong, this is not a moratorium on online gambling this is about laundering billions of dollars and thinking you are above the DOJ.

[Smoke]

I cashed out everything from 5 different offshore books. I'm going back to booking bets... Fukk the FBI and fukk all this bullshit

[Fishhead]

I cashed out everything from 5 different offshore books. I'm going back to booking bets... Fukk the FBI and fukk all this bullshit

You do know you are going from doing something not illegal, to something highly legal...................

[WileOut]

Couldn't be more wrong, this is not a moratorium on online gambling this is about laundering billions of dollars and thinking you are above the DOJ.

The poker rooms had bought a bank in the USA. I don't think the books have gone that far. Also I think this was as much a setup for legal US poker as it was about taking down bad guys. They took out all the competition.

They are not going to offer legal sportsbetting. So they are not going to go after the books.

Also, the guy who they arrested, the rat, only processed poker transactions. There is absolutely no reason to believe they are going after the books, no reason to believe it is about being above the DOJ. These books have been around since the mid 1990's. They were doing these things since then, DOJ did nothing. And I don't think they will do anything now.

[FuzzyDunlop]

The poker rooms had bought a bank in the USA. I don't think the books have gone that far. Also I think this was as much a setup for legal US poker as it was about taking down bad guys. They took out all the competition.

They are not going to offer legal sportsbetting. So they are not going to go after the books. The guy who they arrested, the rat, only processed poker transactions. There is absolutely no reason to believe they are going after the books, no reason to believe it is about being above the DOJ. These books have been around since the mid 1990's. They were doing these things since then, DOJ did nothing. And I don't think they will do anything now.

How familiar are you with what went down around the time of the UIGEA?!?

[Doc JS]

No way to know at this point, Fish...

It completely depends on how far down the rabbit hole this goes.


Doc

[Smoke]

You do know you are going from doing something not illegal, to something highly legal...................

I'm joking fisher..... Maybe.....

[WileOut]

How familiar are you with what went down around the time of the UIGEA?!?

Pretty familiar. I read the 2+2 legal forum almost daily with the lawyers and accountants opinions about the state of the industry and all the different happenings. I also read articles about what is going on and the lawyers interpretations of those articles. I read them for situations like this.

I don't want anybody acting on what I say though. This is my opinion I don't have inside knowledge, don't work in the industry. SBRJohn, Justin, and the SBR crew are far more knowledgeable about any of this than I am. I wish they would say something about it.

[Wiggums5]

none

Offshore sportsbooks are much slower and most of the big ones have no usa ties as far as banking and ownership

video needed jj, too much chaos around here, no one knows what's going on....

as always you should have the answers

[mrmarket]

The only short term problem I see books having is with payment processors getting shut down. That should regulate itself within time however. If DOJ vs. Big 3 doesn't get plead out and goes to trial I foresee lots of precedents being made. This could trod path for future DOJ involved in other areas of online gambling I.e. sportsbooks, casinos etc. It will be interesting to see how this plays out long term.

[Fishhead]

[FuzzyDunlop]

Pretty familiar. I read the 2+2 legal forum almost daily with the lawyers and accountants opinions about the state of the industry and all the different happenings. I also read articles about what is going on and the lawyers interpretations of those articles. I read them for situations like this.

I don't want anybody acting on what I say though. This is my opinion I don't have inside knowledge, don't work in the industry. SBRJohn, Justin, and the SBR crew are far more knowledgeable about any of this than I am. I wish they would say something about it.

I have some inside knowledge being friendly with a few of the larger rakeback providers, I'll write up something later tonight. I think the discussions here are a little better than the ones going on right now at 2+2 where every half hour its just a new wave of people discussing the same introductory shit.

[FuzzyDunlop]

The only short term problem I see books having is with payment processors getting shut down. That should regulate itself within time however. If DOJ vs. Big 3 doesn't get plead out and goes to trial I foresee lots of precedents being made. This could trod path for future DOJ involved in other areas of online gambling I.e. sportsbooks, casinos etc. It will be interesting to see how this plays out long term.

It will be fine, will be exactly like the Neteller crackdown.

[alling]

So far seizure news has not stopped other poker rooms/sportsbooks from operating normally. FBI only going after those who laundered money using the bigger name operators as an example.

[gregm]

Poker stars and full tilt seemed to me to always use American banks on their check payouts. When have you ever got a sportsbook payout check cut from an American bank? I have never had one. They are always ********* usually. Poker stars and full tilt were very arrogant , appearing on TV and making all these moves with US mainland banks.

I believe its a completely different situation but this is not good for anyone.

[FreeFall]

I'm still waiting for someone to convince me how the US can stop a business in another nation? The poker sites were using banks on US soil. It would be impressively imperialistic for the US to go into another nation and say hey stop this we want taxes on it and not you.

[Bill Dozer]

After talking to different folks in poker and in gaming in general this kind of feels like Neteller 2007. You have the big-name guys flying to the US landing in the fed's backyard and you have more do-it-yourself-bankers. Neteller was essentially a bank and it looks like the poker guys literally owned at least one.

Sports betting is different business from poker. The sportsbooks already have kind of been through this. Poker money needs to constantly move in and out and the volume is high. Being able to play depends on others playing. People don't want to play cash games all day, win, and leave it there until the next time unless they are poker pros. Sports betting processing has been frozen before. It's happened to most books. A few years ago we saw Sportsbook.com take 6 months and good books took 2 or 3 at different points in time. They were books that are more than financially sound, not the WSEXs who use it as an excuse. Regardless if you think the way the law was slipped in an unrelated bill should be illegal and it was created by selfish politicians, it is a law and is illegal for US banks to move money for gaming which is a liability for bookmakers. In the past few years a lot of books are diversifying their player base so they have more stability as a business. Canada, Japan, UK and South America make up much bigger parts of their customer bases.

Seizing domains is something new to consider. I think a year or so ago a bill was passed, sold on the most flagrant online offense of all, child porn. Advocates for civil liberties and internet freedom were scared since the language didn't limit the reach to only certain types of federal offenses. We first saw the streaming sports domains confiscated (and come back up) and then wikileaks and now online poker. If this was happening years ago we wouldn't have seen the Napsters and then itunes and so on. For those assessing risk it's definitely something to consider. Just like we saw a lot of the lesser books, like the old Skybook, break or sell because of the stress of processing on their business, could your sportsbook handle the losses when going from Bodog.com to Bodoglife.com or ccTLDs... or no domain name service and just a web IP address?

[vyomguy]

I always thought why the heck are these sites advertising so much in prime-time television...coz its illegal to begin with. They brought this to themselves. Sportbooks on the other hand dont advertise at all.....maybe very rarely...so I think sportsbooks are fine. These poker sites got too cocky.

[EasyCover]

You do know you are going from doing something not illegal, to something highly legal...................

Like he didn't know it was illegal. Master of the obvious. To add-placing a sports bet is also called gambling.

[blackbart]

good to hear dozer chiming in. maybe it will calm the masses

[eyeball]

I don't think its a problem because they will use offshore banks now

[Ian]

I don't think this will effect the sportsbook industry very much. In fact, I think some sites may gain from this. The indictments won't stop people from wanting to play poker, so instead of gambling with Stars or Tilt they'll just put money onto sites like Bodog.

I got screwed over by the Neteller fiasco about as bad as anybody, and I'm quite glad I don't have any money on the indicted sites currently, but I just don't see this having the the same repercussions as the UIGEA/Neteller period. I think the only reason Stars and Tilt have abandoned the American market is because they've been trying to become regulated in the US and don't want to make additional waves. Absolute and UB got the same treatment from the DoJ and they haven't withdrawn. Not surprisingly, they haven't made any attempt to become regulated by the US government.

[JustinBieber]

FuzzyDunlop with horrendous misinformation ITT.

[Bill Dozer]

These poker sites were still advertising on US soil. All the .nets were a spit in the face and seen as no different than advertising the company in general. Full Tilt was advertising with Strikeforce. Wynn had a deal with Poker Stars for when poker went legal in the US, which is happeneing. Absolute and its scandal was a black eye for online poker in general and could enter the US market. What message would it send if Poker Stars, Full Tilt and Absolute had key positions in the US and huge market share as a result of skirting the law for years? They couldn't let it happen.

[donkdown]

none

Offshore sportsbooks are much slower and most of the big ones have no usa ties as far as banking and ownership

How can u say this 4 of your sponsor books here 100% had ties to one of the processors that got nailed??