[bigboydan]

pinnacle needs to offer series prices for baseball during the weekday series's. at least thegreek and cris offer them.

[Mudcat]

That's a pretty strong position. Pinnacle has officially been told!

But Pinnacle has never been too wild with offering a big variety of things. They seem to get comfortable with a few options and just focus on them. It's good to ask for what you want though. They never used to have Team Totals but people kept squawking and I'm looking at NBA Team Totals on the board right now.



A few more options for MLB series betting: WWTS/Cybersportsbook, WagerWeb/BetDon.

[rolemand]

Series prices are always interesting because you have to note the rules each book has for them. Much like tennis each book has their own rules for series wagers it seems

[Bill Dozer]

But Pinnacle has never been too wild with offering a big variety of things. They seem to get comfortable with a few options and just focus on them. It's good to ask for what you want though. They never used to have Team Totals but people kept squawking and I'm looking at NBA Team Totals on the board right now.

I'd have to disagree with that. No one has more ways to bet on an event than Pinnacle. I'm guessing Dan was being sarcastic asking Pinnacle to "grow a set".

[bigboydan]

i was Bill ...but a catcher title of a thread uh

i'm just wondering why they don't offer this wagering option thru the weekday series's is all.

[onlooker]

That would be a great addition if they would add series bets for the weekday series.

[imgv94]

But Pinnacle has never been too wild with offering a big variety of things. They seem to get comfortable with a few options and just focus on them

^^^^^^^^
WOW



Mudcat please edit this out. No offense but it makes
you look like you know nothing. Its like saying Pinnacle
usually has the worst lines also.

Pinnacle is known for their LARGE variety of wagering
opportunities. Their Wager menu is huge!! You can
almost bet anything at Pinnacle!!

[Mudcat]

Mudcat please edit this out. No offense but it makes you look like you know nothing.

You are adorable. I just want to pinch your cheeks.

Its like saying Pinnacle usually has the worst lines also.

Actually it is nothing whatsoever like saying that. There is no remote comparison.

Pinnacle is known for their LARGE variety of wagering opportunities. Their Wager menu is huge!! You can
almost bet anything at Pinnacle!!

No, Pinnacle is known primarily for their reduced juice and high limits. If your primary concern was being able to "almost bet everything," Pinnacle would not be your best choice.

It's a common misconception that, because they are the consensus best book out there, that they must be the best at everything. They're not. They don't have the fastest payouts; they don't have the most knowledgable CS staff; and they don't have the most betting options. They are not the best book for sheer number of props.

In fact there are some very standard, commonplace things which they don't offer. These MLB series prices Dan is asking for is just one of many examples.

But like I said, it is a good idea to let them know if you want something. As I'm sure a wily old vet like yourself knows IMGV, a couple years ago they didn't even have 5 inning lines for MLB even though many other books did. But people asked for them and Pinnacle responded. Team Totals were added even more recently.

Variety is not their primary game. But they keep working hard. They make sure they really know what they're doing before they throw an option up on the board. That's why they're the best.

[imgv94]

Why are we talking about what they did a couple of years ago??

Pinnacle offers wagers on just about anything. All you have to do is
read their home page and/or wager menu and see all the variety of
different wagers they have. Pinnacle now can be known as a book
that offers bets on anything.

[BuddyBear]

awesome post Mudcat! It's post like the one above that reaffirm your knowledge and status as the leading authority on the online gaming industry.

[imgv94]

awesome post Mudcat! It's post like the one above that reaffirm your knowledge and status as the leading authority on the online gaming industry.

I think bill dozer is the leading authority sorry. And
nothing mudcat has said has proven otherwise.


And about this:

But Pinnacle has never been too wild with offering a big variety of things

Never been further from the truth.

[Mudcat]

Why are we talking about what they did a couple of years ago??

Pinnacle offers wagers on just about anything. All you have to do is
read their home page and/or wager menu and see all the variety of
different wagers they have. Pinnacle now can be known as a book
that offers bets on anything.

I think you just misinterpreted my original point. You must have took it to mean I was saying Pinnacle is no good for the variety of things they offer. I wasn't meaning that at all. They are in fact very good.

I was just saying variety isn't their primary game.

Because it's not.

I was saying that if sheer number of options is the most important thing to you, then Pinnacle isn't your best option.

Because it isn't.

I'm talking about right now.

[natrass]

Only know them for soccer but they are quite limited in what they offer .... last time I looked unders/overs, ML and AHs is pretty much it (oh, and a few future's). Compare them with, say, bet365, Eurobet, etc etc and they seem one-dimensional. Have they ever ran any live betting, mixed matches, etc .... I dont htink so.

Ive said it before and I'll say it again, they are a good book but for me they are not the best for a number of reasons. If they were Id use them I guess.

[Mudcat]

I think bill dozer is the leading authority sorry. And nothing mudcat has said has proven otherwise.

Actually Bill's little contribution here, if you have to take everything totally literally (which I don't), was not his finest hour. There are books that have more ways to bet an event than Pinnacle. But I was just letting it go because bickering bores the hell out of me.

[imgv94]

Pinnacle is my favorite book, but they don't offer nearly as much as The Greek or 5 dimes. Some examples in bases, they don't offer R-H-ERR Totals or player to player matchups.

Yeah but they offer alternate RL's and accessibilty
to sell runs and/or pts. And they have alot of props.

Pinnacle might not be #1 but they do offer as much
or more as most.

5Dimes is the leader IMO.

[BuddyBear]

I think bill dozer is the leading authority sorry. And
nothing mudcat has said has proven otherwise.


And about this:

Never been further from the truth.

Bill is a sharp guy and knows the industry well but remember SBR takes advertising dollars from these books so any opinion he offers on books should be prefaced with that fact and therefore Bill's opinion on books are influenced peripheral factors. Bill will tell you Bodog is A book when it shouldn't be....

I've know Mudcat for some time....and let me tell you the guy knows his stuff about sportsbooks. Hands down...you would be hard pressed to find a guy more knowlegable, honest, and polite on there....we are truly blessed here at SBR to have Mudcat talk to us each and everyday about sportsbooks.

[tacomax]

I've know Mudcat for some time....and let me tell you the guy knows his stuff about sportsbooks. Hands down...you would be hard pressed to find a guy more knowlegable, honest, and polite on there....we are truly blessed here at SBR to have Mudcat talk to us each and everyday about sportsbooks.

Get your coat, Mudcat, I think you've pulled.

[Mudcat]

I get the feeling IMGV would argue with Mick Jagger about how to be successful at rock and roll.

[tacomax]

[BuddyBear]

yeah you guys can laugh all you want....but the reality is I would trust whatever Mudcat tells me before I trust Bill Dozer. Bill Dozer has to say whatever his corportae paymasters tell him or else he'll stop getting advertising dollars from them. Does anyone in their right mind think Bodog is an A book...of course not. Bodog is a B, B-, possibly even a C+ book at best. It does not have overnight lines, it does not have totala on every game, it's props are limited, it does not have reduced juice, among other things...yet it is listed as an A book. But why is that the case....b/c Bodog makes donations to SBR. The thing with Mudcat is that he doesn't have that constraint on him like it or not.

No offense....but if you take advertising dollars (in any industry) from specific sportsbooks you should immediately decline to provide any information on which ones are the best or you should preface that you have a set of corporate paymasters that are potentially influencing your "opinions."

[tacomax]

I think I can hear something.

It sounds like a broken record.

[Mudcat]

yeah you guys can laugh all you want....but the reality is I would trust whatever Mudcat tells me before I trust Bill Dozer. Bill Dozer has to say whatever his corportae paymasters tell him or else he'll stop getting advertising dollars from them. Does anyone in their right mind think Bodog is an A book...of course not. Bodog is a B, B-, possibly even a C+ book at best. It does not have overnight lines, it does not have totala on every game, it's props are limited, it does not have reduced juice, among other things...yet it is listed as an A book. But why is that the case....b/c Bodog makes donations to SBR. The thing with Mudcat is that he doesn't have that constraint on him like it or not.

No offense....but if you take advertising dollars (in any industry) from specific sportsbooks you should immediately decline to provide any information on which ones are the best or you should preface that you have a set of corporate paymasters that are potentially influencing your "opinions."

Oh I don't know about that. I'm an SBR employee too, (although only as a side-gig for me). And several of the books that I was talking about having more options than Pinnacle are also SBR advertisers (5Dimes, The Greek, Bet365).

I have a lot of respect for what Bill says about anything. I'm not sure how much he gambles and gets into the nitty gritty sportsbook details any more though. My sense is he has a full-time job with his bigger picture industry stuff. But I always pay attention any time I see him post anything.

[BuddyBear]

taco you are a full-fledged moron....we are talking about the integrity of information provided on here about sportsbooks. Yes Bill Dozer knows his stuff...but he takes money from sportsbooks so he is not in a position to give advice b/c any information he provides is going to be influenced by a set of factors that are irrelevant. Let me guess Taco...you believe that taking advertising dollars has no influence whatsoever and I am sure Raiders really thought Royal was a good book. You know that is true stop pretending it's not....what do you think Taco if you kiss up enough and deny basic truths you can get a position as a mod on here. Let me be very blunt Taco (1) you aren't going to get a mod position and (2) nobody likes you on here

[tacomax]

taco you are a full-fledged moron....

Thankyou. You've certainly got a way with words. Glad to see that the money spent on your education wasn't wasted.

we are talking about the integrity of information provided on here about sportsbooks. Yes Bill Dozer knows his stuff...but he takes money from sportsbooks so he is not in a position to give advice b/c any information he provides is going to be influenced by a set of factors that are irrelevant.

Ok, Sherlock, how else are SBR going to provide a service for players? Do you expect them to harvest $s each month from the money tree to pay the bills?

Bill spends a lot of a time helping out players at no cost to them. He'll help players who sign up for books which didn't come with an SBR referral. That's pretty cool. He'll deal with the lowest of the low of the books and do his upmost to get player funds back. All at no cost to the player.

If you know how SBR can get sufficient income without the contributions from sportsbooks then I'm sure they'd be all ears to your business plan.

Let me guess Taco...you believe that taking advertising dollars has no influence whatsoever and I am sure Raiders really thought Royal was a good book.

I'd say that if there is any influence in advertising dollars at SBR then it's a heck of a lot less here than it is at other sites such as EOG or TOW. Just a quick scan over each site's recommended books would make it obvious to anyone with a semblance of common sense.

You know that is true stop pretending it's not....what do you think Taco if you kiss up enough and deny basic truths you can get a position as a mod on here.

Let me be very blunt Taco (1) you aren't going to get a mod position

Why on earth would I want to be a mod? Where have I said I wanted to be a mod?

(2) nobody likes you on here

:an_cry:

[tacomax]

I'm in the Tacomax fan club.

[BuddyBear]

Anyone, and I mean anyone, who takes money from corporate backers is going to provide information that is consistent with what that corporate paymaster wants...otherwise they wouldn't give them money. It's no different than a dentist receiving a grant from Crest to do a study....the results better come back saying something alone the lines that Crest is the best toothpaste ever to exist. You know how it works Taco don't try to rationalize it in some weird way by comparing SBR to others....Here is Taco's reasoning....well yeah SBR does take money and it may have some influence but that influence isn't the same as TOW or EOG and for that I can trust SBR blindly. I am really shocked you place such low standards on yourself Taco that you are incredulous enough to believe everything SBR tells you.

The reality is SBR has a lot of good information with a lot of good and knowlegable people but recognize that they do take money from sportsbooks and that any information they provide you should be a starting point not an ending point....the influence of corporate dollars can blind a lot of people and you shouldn't think that just b/c Bill posts and is friendly and has helped out a lot of people he isn't immune from falling victim to the almighty dollar.


By the way, my education is free it's nice to know that for the rest of my life I'll be smarter than you.

[tacomax]

By the way, my education is free

That's good, otherwise I'd have demanded a refund.

[Bill Dozer]

Bill is a sharp guy and knows the industry well but remember SBR takes advertising dollars from these books so any opinion he offers on books should be prefaced with that fact and therefore Bill's opinion on books are influenced peripheral factors. Bill will tell you Bodog is A book when it shouldn't be....

I've know Mudcat for some time....and let me tell you the guy knows his stuff about sportsbooks. Hands down...you would be hard pressed to find a guy more knowlegable, honest, and polite on there....we are truly blessed here at SBR to have Mudcat talk to us each and everyday about sportsbooks.

Buddy,
I would tell players that I think Bodog is an A+ book. That was my position during our last evaluation. Bodog might not be the top book for my personal use but they cover their niche and service their players as well as anyone. The level of service, overall product, along with automatic bonuses makes them an obvious top book. If you think the biggest names in sports betting don't use them because of their limits or a later opener, you would be wrong.

I'm surprised by your statement especially since I've taken the time to give you my personal opinion on other topics. Honesty and information is what we aim for here and that is why Mudcat has been coveted by SBR twice. I'm still waiting for someone to find another forum where the staff critiques the sponsors on a daily basis. Everyone is welcome to debate where they feel a book should be and where it is for them. All of the information behind a rating is here for your viewing pleasure. Feel free to make your own case about a book instead of your take on someone else's opinion. Bodog is no where near an A? Start a thread and lets chat.

Mud,

To continue with our debate..

Actually Bill's little contribution here, if you have to take everything totally literally (which I don't), was not his finest hour. There are books that have more ways to bet an event than Pinnacle. But I was just letting it go because bickering bores the hell out of me.

Let's look at 3 major US sports. I'll start with Baseball...

Overnight Lines: Yes
Reverse Run Lines: Yes
5-inning lines: Yes, RLs, MLs & Totals
Grand Salami Totals: Yes
Research Report

Add MLB team totals and the MLB order form.

Whatcha got?

[BuddyBear]

And yes Bill I appreciate your honesty and opinions...but that's not the point. The point I am emphasizing is that anyone who takes money from sportsbooks is going to promote those sportsbooks. They may be the best, they may be the worst but when you are dependent on those sportsbook it doesn't matter anymore. That's not only how it works on SBR but that's how it works everywhere. Imagine if someone is receiving money from someone and all they do is rip on them. Take a look at Raiders...he was getting money from Royal and had to clinch his teeth to defend them everyday. He had to...that's what advertising dollars do to you....you can say all you want that you openly critique them and sure you have these threads by posters but the reality is your sponsors aren't paying for threads your sponsors are paying to place their logo up front and for lofty ratinigs. Those logos are heuristics for most everyone. This is no different then Good morning America doing a "story" on how great one of their advertisors or how the White House producing stories for local news networks to promote....in the end, money is going to blind you.

As a matter of fact, before I left on important business there was a thread discussing Bodog's rating and it was near unanimous among posters that it was not an A book by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, I believe no one was willing to defend it's grade. Basically what you are telling us is that Pinnalce and Bodog are equivalent books and I think that offends a lot of people. Either you are telling us that there is quite a bit of variance within each grade or that the criteria are so broadly defined that there are so many different measures that all you have to do is satisfy a few to get a certain grade. To be honest, I use Bodog and I use SIA and I really don't see too much difference between the two books with a few exceptions. I hope someone can retrieve that thread for all to see.

[isetcap]

I value Bill's opinion over everybody elses when it comes to sportsbooks. In fact, there are only a couple of opinions on this forum that carry as much weight as Bill's for my purposes. Whenever Ganchrow has something to say, I'm listening. Whenever Natrass has something to say, I'm listening.

I also would like to add that I'm a huge tacomax fan and have been since day 1.

[BuddyBear]

no need to start a new thread on Bodog here are some already...

http://sbrforum.com/showthread.php?t...ighlight=Bodog

here is the classic Bodog thread with everyone pretty much bashing it...

http://sbrforum.com/showthread.php?t...ighlight=Bodog