[Dazzez]

Originally Posted by moneyline

Mark 16:16 -- HE WHO HAS BELIEVED and ... (has been baptized)

What about Mark 16:17-18?

And these signs will accompany those who believe: ... they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well. (NIV)

So let me get this straight, moneyline. Are you actually immune to all poisons or are you just awarded +4 on your saving throws? Does this only apply to poison you've imbibed or do you have additional resilience to topical and injected poisons?

Is your invulnerability to snakes limited to just their venom or has Jesus in His Mercy also bestowed upon you a complete imperviousness to python constriction as well? Obviously in Jesus' name you can survive a rattle snake bite (duh), but what I'm wondering is if snakes just won't bite you or if it just doesn't hurt when they do?

I gotta give it up for cure light wounds, that sounds like a useful spell to have. So how does that work for you, moneyline? What is that like 1d8+1 hit points each time you cast it? Once a day? Twice a day?

This Christian Magic sounds like some cool powers to have and is not foolish or ridiculous in the least. Maybe I should become a believer and get me some of that.

[moneyline]

I am immune to death because of Jesus -- not bodily death, of course, but as Jesus has granted me eternal life, a poisonous snake cannot take that away from me. Because the finite life you have here on earth is all you believe you possess, that same snake takes away everything from you ...

(doesn't have to, but your free will, your choice, your ignorance ...)

When you read the Bible as a whole, you look for confirmation -- that is what allows you to discern symbolism from a literal statement. Please quote any other place in the NT where drinking deadly poison without bodily harm is mentioned in the NT. You can't. It isn't. Welcome to symbolism alluding to eternal life, pal.

[Sportsgirl]

1

[moneyline]

Bapitism is an adult activity done when one decides to dedicate their life to Jesus Christ. Which is -- drum roll please -- the way to heaven. Accepting the Lord into your heart.

Your response to DH was intellectually dishonest, saying you need to be baptized to be saved (and leaving out the other part of the quote you gave to him). I wrote out the other part of the quote -- partial quotes aren't very good, SG, when you are throwing chapter and verse around, as you are wont to do. Good there are others around to not let you get away with the partial quote. Keep you honest, even when you don't want to be.

Partial quotes when using chapter and verse ARE of great interest to me, btw, because they are a tool used by dishonest people. Do it again and I'll call you on it again. I hope people do the same when reading your newspaper articles!

[Dazzez]

Originally Posted by moneyline

When you read the Bible as a whole, you look for confirmation -- that is what allows you to discern symbolism from a literal statement. Please quote any other place in the NT where drinking deadly poison without bodily harm is mentioned in the NT. You can't. It isn't. Welcome to symbolism alluding to eternal life, pal.

So is it your contention that if a statement is made only once in the Bible it need not be taken literally?

That sounds to me like someone is constructing his own personal Jesus. Building God in his own image, maybe? Constructing a private Jesus for himself rather than taking the Word as God breathed and flawless, perhaps? Hmm?

Mark 8:38:

If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels.

Hell, why stop at snakes and immunity to poison? In moneyline's personal vision of Christianity maybe the Resurrection was just a metaphor? Maybe Jesus didn't even die on the Cross for our sins ... maybe he just stubbed his big toe?

Once you set off down that slippery slope, moneyline, there's only one place it can lead ... and it's going to be pretty hot down there. Or wait ... is that a metaphor?

[moneyline]

Any Biblicial scholar worth his or her salt can explain the concept of confirmation to you. As they can explain to you the dangers of cherry-picking quotes without taking the entire body of work into consideration.

Again, it'd be your usage of free will whether or not you want to agree with these individuals or not. If not, keep down that path you were alluding to -- I don't know if it is hot, but it sure will be empty, apart from God.

[Sportsgirl]

1

[Dazzez]

Originally Posted by moneyline

Any Biblicial scholar worth his or her salt can explain the concept of confirmation to you. As they can explain to you the dangers of cherry-picking quotes without taking the entire body of work into consideration.

Oh I fully understand that rationalization. I also fully understand that I'm quoting chapter and verse while you're stating your own feelings, opinions, and guesses.

But hey I suppose you must know better than the Word of God. Good for you. Of course. the God of the Bible might not like that so much, although with any luck your personally manufactured Savior will be just peachy with it. Sounds groovy.

Originally Posted by moneyline

Again, it'd be your usage of free will whether or not you want to agree with these individuals or not. If not, keep down that path you were alluding to -- I don't know if it is hot, but it sure will be empty, apart from God.

Just as it's your own free wll to reject the Christ of the Bible and reconstruct him in your own image. "I [Jesus] am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6, NIV)

Sounds to me like I'll be seeing you in Hell, Buddy Boy. I'll save you a nice warm spot.

[moneyline]

" - Don't most Christians believe they are 'saved' when they are baptized?

- Yes, those who follow the New Testament exactly do (Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38)"

That was, and still is, an incomplete answer to DH, SportsGirl ... anyone who read that would believe that a Christian believes he is saved when he is baptized ... and instead of writing out the rest of the quote, you just left the numbers there (worthless sitting on their own), knowing most would not bother to open their Bible and read the rest ...

You seem to be like most people who quote chapter and verse with regularity, as if the numbers themselves were talismen ... I am not interested in you doing that, SportsGirl. Either write out the important words or I'm not at all interested in what you have to say.

(but I will keep calling you out on your intellectual dishonesty, of that you can be sure)

And Dazzy, you believe Biblical scholars "rationalize"? Gotcha. They've spent their entire lives dedicated to understanding the Bible -- little did they know, with just a cherry-pick here and another there, you've been able to show them up as charlatans. Good on ya, mate!

[Sportsgirl]

1

[pavyracer]

Who wrote the Bible? God?

[moneyline]

You were being intellectually dishonest. No matter how many times you say you weren't, you realize you were. But enough of that ...

Everything you are quoting revolves around acceptance of Jesus Christ. Having water poured over your head as a child with no understanding of the Lord is meaningless. Every one of the quotes revolves around the resurrection of the Lord.

Oh, and SG, you do fancy yourself an intellectual when it comes to the Bible. It oozes out each of your pores every text you write. Saying it isn't so doesn't change the fact of how it comes across.

And one other hint. Stop writing in every post "I don't care what you say ...," "that has no meaning to me whatsoever..." and things of the like. The more you write it, the more obvious it is that YOU DO care. Just a tip, in case you do the same thing in your newspaper articles.

[Sportsgirl]

1

[moneyline]

Oh, SG, you want to get into a good, old fashioned "pissing" contest ... one last salvo for now.

1. Looking at your post to DH is all the proof I need. You may be wilfully obtuse, but the post you wrote to him verified his assertion that most Christians believe they are saved if they are baptized. And in place of explaining any further, you wrote down the numbers (chapter and verse) with the haughty attitude, if you are too lazy to look it up, it's not my job to show it to you. Intellectually dishonesy at its finest.

2. Actually, you didn't quote you must repent first. In your initial post to DH, you just wrote down Acts 2:38 ... only after I called you on it did you deign to quote anything. More intellectual dishonesty by the esteemed SG.

3. Two things. First, you make who has more biblical knowledge out to be a competition (uh-oh, there goes that humility) and also, you still seem to come from the debate school of "If I say I am better, I AM better." The weakest form of debate ever -- surprised you are such a devotee of it.

4. NO truth in anything I say. Really? You mean Jesus isn't the way to heaven? God did not give us all free will? Good works are not enough to get us into heaven? There isn't only one true God? I'e said all of these things in my posts. I am amazed to find that you believe there is no truth to any of them. Some Christian you are, SG.

(at least I got you to stop saying "I don't care what you say" -- it is a step in the right direction)

[Sportsgirl]

1