[Arnold]

Originally Posted by moneyline

You choose to believe heaven is the reason I believe. I believe because God exists and because I always want to be in His presence, both in this life and the afterlife. You turn Him away with your apathetic behavior and expect that, if He is loving, there will be no consequences for your actions.

So if God was to spend his eternity in hell, would you still strive to be with God? I want an honest answer.

For such an intelligent sort, it is amazing that you can't grasp the concept that your actions will have consequences.

Of course my actions have consequences. I'm nice to people - they are nice to me too. I'm mean to people - they hate me too. It's easy. Don't know why it's so hard for you to understand.

If you choose to ignore your father here on earth and then he doesn't want to embrace you as a result, I guess that means he is not a loving person either?

My parents will never give up on me. I feel sorry for you having such bad parents that gave up on you.

(as for giving up my spot in heaven for you, it's an irrelevant question, as everyone has access to heaven -- it's not set up for one person to give up a spot for another ... but, of course, you know that may or may not be true, just like everything else in your life you can't decide upon)

I didn't ask you about how to access heaven. I asked you whether or not you are ready to give up your spot if needed. I'm honest with you, why can't you be honest with me...just answer the question.

[moneyline]

Cosnidering the fact that hell is being outside of God's presence, it'd be pretty difficult to be in hell with God.

My parents never gave up on me. Then again, I made the choice not to ignore and ridicule their existence.

Funny you don't see how choosing to ignore God's existence is an action you are taking and sad that you don't realize the magnitude of the consequence it will have on your life.

I would not give up being with God for anything. And I am blessed to serve a God that would never ask anyone to do so. He's left enough room for everybody -- not that everybody seems to be willing to accept the gift.

[Arnold]

Originally Posted by moneyline

Cosnidering the fact that hell is being outside of God's presence, it'd be pretty difficult to be in hell with God.

Then I must have been living in hell all this time

My parents never gave up on me. Then again, I made the choice not to ignore and ridicule their existence.

You have some bad parents there if they would ever leave you to die.

Funny you don't see how choosing to ignore God's existence is an action you are taking and sad that you don't realize the magnitude of the consequence it will have on your life.

Funny you don't see how choosing to ignore Santa's existence is an action you are taking and sad that you don't realize the magnitude of the consequence it will have on your life.

I would not give up being with God for anything. And I am blessed to serve a God that would never ask anyone to do so. He's left enough room for everybody -- not that everybody seems to be willing to accept the gift.

Oh, so you wouldn't give up your spot for me. That shows the true inner you. Good job. No Christian have ever passed my test. You're all the same, all the same disgusting low lives, that only care about their own gut.

[moneyline]

No, Arnold, you see God is on earth. He just won't be where you go when you die if you continue on the path you are following right now - the one you admit to following, anyway.

And you are getting it all wrong yet again. It's not your parent (God) that has left you. It is you who refuse Him. And as much as it pains Him, you have free will and have the right to refuse Him from being able to help you.

Equating God to Santa -- good luck with that.

Your arrogance is astounding. Your test? Why should anyone give up a spot for you when it is not necesary? All you have to do is accept the Lord. If you are not willing to do that, only you are to blame. Nobody else. If you are drowning and I throw you a life preserver (and you choose not to grab it), I'm the evil one?

Uh-huh.

[Arnold]

Originally Posted by moneyline

No, Arnold, you see God is on earth. He just won't be where you go when you die if you continue on the path you are following right now - the one you admit to following, anyway.

So what's going to happen when God won't be on earth? Will that suck out all the oxygen from earth?

And you are getting it all wrong yet again. It's not your parent (God) that has left you. It is you who refuse Him. And as much as it pains Him, you have free will and have the right to refuse Him from being able to help you.

And God will spend all eternity in pain, because I'll be left burning in hell. We should feel sorry for him

Equating God to Santa -- good luck with that.

You don't need luck with that, just a small portion of functional brain - to realize that anyone can say such things about whoever they want...and they will all be as convincing.

Your test? Why should anyone give up a spot for you when it is not necesary?

Don't you understand what a hypothetical question is?

If you are drowning and I throw you a life preserver (and you choose not to grab it), I'm the evil one?

You come and grab me. Or at least throw a real life preserver, not an imaginary one. Why Christians always make their own God look so stupid and disabled? You're a shame to God.

[Dark Horse]

Originally Posted by moneyline

And yet you make the assumption that someone who truly accepts the Lord can commit such atrocities. Fact is, the only person who knows if someone has truly accepted the Lord as their Savior is the Lord. Humans can pay lip service to acceptance, hold positions that would make one think they have accepted, but only the Lord knows whether they have or not. And they will be judged accordingly, as to whether or not they did accept Him while on earth.

Fair enough. Does change the picture a little, doesn't it? Don't most Christians believe they are 'saved' when they are baptized? The way you put it here suggests that it may actually be very difficult. By that standard, the saved ones could turn out to be fewer than 1 in a million. Theoretically.

Especially since you throw in the sinners angle later, as all 'Christians' seem to find necessary. You think Christ ever said that? 'You are a sinner.'

[moneyline]

You are continuously thrown a real life preserver and continuously reject it ... and are drowning as we speak. This does cause God pain, but He also knows it was ultimately your choice. As much as it pains a parent to see their child refuse treatment when they are on drugs, the parent also takes pride in and enjoys their other children who stay on the clean path.

God is neither helpless or disabled. What part of free will don't you understand again? I'll try to explain it to you, although you might choose not to understand -- or say you are unable to choose to understand or not.

Quite the complex guy, Arnold. Intelligent, but yet so foolish.

Dark Horse: no, it is not in the Christian or Catholic doctrine, for that matter, that you are saved when you are baptized. 1 in a million people have accepted Jesus Christ? Huh? Oh, and the Bible clearly shows that God realizes all men are sinners. And all fall short of the glory of God. And only by acceptance does one become saved. Not perfect, but saved.

[Dark Horse]

Originally Posted by moneyline

Oh, and the Bible clearly shows that God realizes all men are sinners. And all fall short of the glory of God. And only by acceptance does one become saved. Not perfect, but saved.

I thought the old book said that man was made in the image of God.

[Dark Horse]

The Bible is a book. It was put together around 500 AD (Council of Constantinople), and doesn't necessarily reflect the teachings of Christ. Consider this lovely little piece from the Old Testament:

And the Lord said to me: Behold I have begun to deliver unto thee Sehon and his land, begin to possess it. 32 And Sehon came out to meet us with all his people to fight at Jasa. 33 And the Lord our God delivered him to us: and we slew him with his sons and all his people. 34 And we took all his cities at that time, killing the inhabitants of them, men and women and children. We left nothing of them: 35 Except the cattle which came to the share of them that took them: and the spoils of the cities, which we took.

Amen? No wonder George W believes God told him to attack Iraq... (The worst president in US history -according to historians- is a born again Christian!)

Why did I quote this section? Because the sinners concept fits well in the dark spirit of the Old Testament, but not -at all- with what Christ appears to have taught. (I say 'appears', because I believe the teachings of Christ only partially survived the editing sessions five centuries later).

[Arnold]

Originally Posted by moneyline

You are continuously thrown a real life preserver and continuously reject it ... and are drowning as we speak.

Again you with your imaginary life preservers. You're hungry? Well, why don't you sit down on an imaginary chair and eat that imaginary apple?

God is neither helpless or disabled. What part of free will don't you understand again?

He is helpless and disabled, because he can't do anything about convincing people to believe in him. Besides, when you are drowning or trapped in a burning house, a sane rescuer won't be asking you questions about whether you want to be saved or not - it is in his best interest your safety. Only an insane rescuer will leave someone to die. It is also a criminal violation of federal law. But because your God is insane, he legally isn't committing a crime.

And only by acceptance does one become saved. Not perfect, but saved.

Exactly, the Christian guy is not any better than a non-Christian guy. Does that really makes him saved? How stupid is your God, moneyline? Buddhists spend their entire lives to reach nirvana, and Christians just can "fart" one time and go to heaven. You've been deceived badly.

[moneyline]

I know you hate to think about it, Arnold, but when the time comes you will be the one that has been deceived. It is an old line, but a very apt one -- "the best trick the devil pulled is convincing the world he did not exist."

Of course, he hasn't convinced you of that, Arnold, since you won't take a position on the existence of anyone you can't read about in the history books (and even then, only the books you deem worthy of your trust) ...

Now you are holding God to federal law? The straw is a bit further, Arnold -- keep grasping ...

[Arnold]

Originally Posted by moneyline

I know you hate to think about it, Arnold, but when the time comes you will be the one that has

How's the devil doing these days? Is he still red with horns and a pointy tail? Bwahahahahaaa!!!

Of course, he hasn't convinced you of that, Arnold, since you won't take a position on the existence of anyone you can't read about in the history books (and even then, only the books you deem worthy of your trust) ...

Why don't you take a position on Santa? Or the pink elephants on the moon? Don't you know that if you don't believe in pink elephants, they will be eating you alive for eternity? Don't take them lightly, I would repent your sinful ways and believe in the pink elephants!!! In the worst case scenario, you have nothing to lose!! It's a free bet!!

Now you are holding God to federal law? The straw is a bit further, Arnold -- keep grasping ...

Not me, but you.

[Panic]

When does this thread die? Seriously. Ya'll go get a room and work it out.