[Kerfuffle]

I tell you, these guys just make my head spin when they talk about jewish money.

Today, Saudi Arabia will pump 9.2 million barrels of oil, and get about $110 per barel. That's an income of more than one BILLION dollars, just today.

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.... icle_id=90843

They got this amount yesterday.

And the day before that.

They'll get that amount tomorrow.

And that's just Saudi Arabia, never mind the rest of the OPEC countries.

And these guys bitch and moan about jewish money influencing congress???


The Suadis will pump in one hour today what the jewish lobby contributes in an entire year.

[curious]

Originally Posted by Kerfuffle

I tell you, these guys just make my head spin when they talk about jewish money.

Today, Saudi Arabia will pump 9.2 million barrels of oil, and get about $110 per barel. That's an income of more than one BILLION dollars, just today.

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.... icle_id=90843

They got this amount yesterday.

And the day before that.

They'll get that amount tomorrow.

And that's just Saudi Arabia, never mind the rest of the OPEC countries.

And these guys bitch and moan about jewish money influencing congress???


The Suadis will pump in one hour today what the jewish lobby contributes in an entire year.

It's worse than that. There are huge proven oil reserves on US federal land. And even larger reserves offshore. Most countries would form a national oil company and develop these reserves in partnership with experienced oil companies. The benefits are obvious. Lower dependence on MidEast oil. Help the balance of payments deficit and the trade deficit. Add revenues to the treasury so that taxes can be reduced.

Why does the United States not do this? Just take a look a the Senators who vote to continue the moratorium on oil exploration and drilling year after year and see who their big contributers are. Either oil companies or fronts for oil companies. The DemoCong have a hysterical hatred for oil exploration. Could it be that they are getting paid well to think that way?

[BuddyBear]

To answer your question, no Arabs don't lack money. In the U.S. Arabs are one of the financially successful minority groups. They earn more money and are more educated than the average American. Arabs in the ME don't lack money either. What they do lack, however, is a full-fledged lobbying organization. Not to mention, there are a lot of factions and parties in the Arab world that prevent them from unitying. Jews are well organized and well represented in this country, and Arabs are not.


Sorry but this is hilarious, Christian-Judeo relationship??? Don't kid yourself too much. To begin, this is a country that is founded on separation of church and state right? Religious identity should play no role in what policies the government adopts. The hypocrisy is that Jewish lobby groups always want policies and campaigns that are not influeced by religion, yet they always refer to this C-J relationship when defending Israel. In addition, if these C-J relationships are so strong, why does the U.S. have such a strong relationship with Saudia Arabia? Let me break some news to you...evereything in this country is about financial interests. If the Jews did not have any money, the U.S. would care less about Israel. Everything comes down to money...some people who defend Israel uncritically always mention this strong C-J relationship...yeah, let's see how strong that relationship holds w/o any campaign donations.

Most Jews I know, even the hardest core ones, are well aware the entire process is a sham. If these Christian-Judeo relationships are strong, why is the lobby pouring millions of dollars into members of Congress's campaigns??? Should not they just be pro-israel by nature then? Why even have a lobby...let alone one is so powerful? Come man, use some critical thinking skills. I mean is it that much of a dissonance arousing experience for you to admit that yeah, maybe the Congress really does nto support Israel so fervishly?

Additionally, If I understood correctly, the first 20 years of Israel's existence, the United States had a very lukewarm relationship with them. Israel was not any less Jewish its first 20 years was it??? It wasn't really till the Jews in the U.S. started developing a strong lobbying effort that the U.S. government and Congress took notice of just how "important" Israel was.

And who said anything about the oil lobby? If you want to examine that, you have to consider that the oil lobby is more than just the Middle East. Oil is produced all over the world and is hardly a Middle East phenomeon although the region has a lot of oil. Moreover, oil is a necessary resource where uncritical and unconditional support of Israel is not. Two different things. Both lobbying groups have different goals as well.

If anything, the oil lobby should provide further evidence that everything is about money. What on earth does the U.S. have in common with Saudia Arabia...umm sorry to break it to you, but nothing. Saudia Arabia might be the single worst country in the world to live in. No freedoms, no democracy, human rights abuses, strict laws on women, religious persecutions, etc... Yet the U.S. defends it always. Why?...because of money and oil!!! Everything always come down to money. If you have money, no matter your background or what interests you represent, you will be taken seriously. You don't have money, nobody cares. That's how America operates. Always has and always will.

You don't think for a moment the U.S. Congress is well aware of Israel's massacres, war crimes, human rights violations, violations of the Road Map, etc.... Of course they are. Do you think they care? Probably not...as long as the Israel lobby keeps giving them money they will shut up and say nice things about Israel and vote for pro-israel legislation from now till the end of time.

Look at the United Nations. An esteemed international governing agency. There is no massive lobbying that takes place there. What does the U.N. routinely have to say about Israel. the U.N. is highly critical of Israel...you see, when you are not influenecd by money, you arrive at completely different conclusions.

The Congress here is corrupt. Just come to terms with it. Like Will Rogers once said, "The U.S. Congress is the best that money that can buy."

[BuddyBear]

Also, you guys are making a huge mistake by comparing the Israel lobby with the oil lobby. They are two different things.

The Israel lobby's goal is to shape foreign policy in the Middle East. Even the lobby grops themselves admit this. On the other hand, the oil lobby's goal is to secure a profit. If the oil lobby was truly pro-Arab like you guys are suggesting, wouldn't they withhold their oil production to America till they changed their policy to meet their? No...you think they give a flying fukc about that? They just want money, money, money....

You don't think Israel does business with the oil lobby either?
Think for just a moment and you'll see how off your thinking is.

Finally, who said anything about "jewish money?" The Israel lobby is composed of non-Jewish entities as well like radical Christians. Call it what it is, "money intended to influence support for Israel."

You guys make me laugh thinking that Congress is not influenced by money

[BuddyBear]

All i know is if people like Pat Robertson and Jerry Fallwell supported my particular point of view so enthusiastically, I would be on the "wrong side" of an issue....

[Kerfuffle]

Originally Posted by BuddyBear

To answer your question, no Arabs don't lack money. In the U.S. Arabs are one of the financially successful minority groups. They earn more money and are more educated than the average American. Arabs in the ME don't lack money either. What they do lack, however, is a full-fledged lobbying organization. Not to mention, there are a lot of factions and parties in the Arab world that prevent them from unitying. Jews are well organized and well represented in this country, and Arabs are not.


Sorry but this is hilarious, Christian-Judeo relationship??? Don't kid yourself too much. To begin, this is a country that is founded on separation of church and state right? Religious identity should play no role in what policies the government adopts. The hypocrisy is that Jewish lobby groups always want policies and campaigns that are not influeced by religion, yet they always refer to this C-J relationship when defending Israel. In addition, if these C-J relationships are so strong, why does the U.S. have such a strong relationship with Saudia Arabia? Let me break some news to you...evereything in this country is about financial interests. If the Jews did not have any money, the U.S. would care less about Israel. Everything comes down to money...some people who defend Israel uncritically always mention this strong C-J relationship...yeah, let's see how strong that relationship holds w/o any campaign donations.

Most Jews I know, even the hardest core ones, are well aware the entire process is a sham. If these Christian-Judeo relationships are strong, why is the lobby pouring millions of dollars into members of Congress's campaigns??? Should not they just be pro-israel by nature then? Why even have a lobby...let alone one is so powerful? Come man, use some critical thinking skills. I mean is it that much of a dissonance arousing experience for you to admit that yeah, maybe the Congress really does nto support Israel so fervishly?

Additionally, If I understood correctly, the first 20 years of Israel's existence, the United States had a very lukewarm relationship with them. Israel was not any less Jewish its first 20 years was it??? It wasn't really till the Jews in the U.S. started developing a strong lobbying effort that the U.S. government and Congress took notice of just how "important" Israel was.

And who said anything about the oil lobby? If you want to examine that, you have to consider that the oil lobby is more than just the Middle East. Oil is produced all over the world and is hardly a Middle East phenomeon although the region has a lot of oil. Moreover, oil is a necessary resource where uncritical and unconditional support of Israel is not. Two different things. Both lobbying groups have different goals as well.

If anything, the oil lobby should provide further evidence that everything is about money. What on earth does the U.S. have in common with Saudia Arabia...umm sorry to break it to you, but nothing. Saudia Arabia might be the single worst country in the world to live in. No freedoms, no democracy, human rights abuses, strict laws on women, religious persecutions, etc... Yet the U.S. defends it always. Why?...because of money and oil!!! Everything always come down to money. If you have money, no matter your background or what interests you represent, you will be taken seriously. You don't have money, nobody cares. That's how America operates. Always has and always will.

You don't think for a moment the U.S. Congress is well aware of Israel's massacres, war crimes, human rights violations, violations of the Road Map, etc.... Of course they are. Do you think they care? Probably not...as long as the Israel lobby keeps giving them money they will shut up and say nice things about Israel and vote for pro-israel legislation from now till the end of time.

Look at the United Nations. An esteemed international governing agency. There is no massive lobbying that takes place there. What does the U.N. routinely have to say about Israel. the U.N. is highly critical of Israel...you see, when you are not influenecd by money, you arrive at completely different conclusions.

The Congress here is corrupt. Just come to terms with it. Like Will Rogers once said, "The U.S. Congress is the best that money that can buy."

Not bad at all.

You're point about the U.S. not givng much of a damn about Israel for its first 20 years is well taken.

Same with not giving two hoots about Saudi Arabia if they weren't sitting on fields of oil covered by a little bit of sand.

As for Congress, what are you going to do? As Winston Churchill said, democracy is the worst form of government ever invented except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.

[eyeball]

Israel allready has the military plans ready to go, they are just waiting for Iran's Nuclear progam to get to a certan point. They are not going to wait for someone to come to their aid like they did in the concentration camps. They have learned their leson, it will bombs away. Six million more won't die

Secondly if it wasn't for Israel the WHOLE DAMN middle east would be Muslim you idiots!

This will not be Bush diplomacy they won;t consult with all the foreign leaders before they move.

I hope all of Iran goes up in smoke!

[ritehook]

No Jew is going to want to live with Muslims...certainly Jews won't tolerate such a low standard of living. - BuddyBear

Have to disagree with you again, buddy.

There is a thriving Jewish population, with thier own culture and synagogues and way of life in a large Muslim country. About 35,000 to 40,000.

Israel has been begging these people to leave, even offering them bribes to do so.

But most, almost all, the Jews in this very Muslim land refuse the entreaties of the super-nationalists in Israel.

They like it where they are. They have freedom to practice thier religion and way of life. They have a history in this Muslim land going back millenia.

The Muslim land of which I speak?

Iran!

Most of the Jews there are concentrated in Tehran. Should anyone doubt this I'll go to the trouble of searching the Web and providing the link.

But thanx for the kudos. My interest in the topic stems from the wild phenomena of how a so-called "free press" in America, supposedly the freest in the world, should be a handmaiden in systmatically suprressing facts and opinion re the Zionist Lobby in America.

There is this Palestinian tailor in San Diego. A modest guy with a small business. I don't much patronize tailors, only when I need pants hemmed. Years ago I heard this guy listening to one Dave Dawson on the radio - Dawson actually would now and then open discussion re the influence of the Lobby. He was later forced out of town, I think ended up in Kansas City.

So last year when I tore a pocket I went to see the little tailor, and mentioned the book, The Israel Lobby. He said, sadly, that "people all over the world know how powerful this group is in this country. All except the people ____"

Not wanting to be considered one of the dumb sheep, I piped up: " --- the people of America. We're the brainwashed idiots."

He sadly shook his head.

[ritehook]

I also don't think it's overdoing it to now and then have a long thread on a political topic.

Not when we see 800 views of a JJ video (often well-deserved, sometimes not) or a few thou for Swede's biting but light youtube commentary (come back with it, gal).

And curious's uninhibited defense of his povs and attacks on those who disagree bring in viewers who may not otherwise read it! (He's the JJ and Swede of polit commentary!)

Tho I had a discussion with him here, was respectful of his views, and he responded by being likewise re mine. At least, we weren't using gutter language! (I was raised on the very mean streets of NY and NJ, and to this day use vulgarity as a second language. But try to keep it out of the printed word, where it shows up much lamer and dumber than when it's spoken.)

[ritehook]

Secondly if it wasn't for Israel the WHOLE DAMN middle east would be Muslim you idiots! -eyeball

OMG, what a tragedy that would be.

Almost worse than all of South America being Hispanic.

[curious]

Originally Posted by BuddyBear

Also, you guys are making a huge mistake by comparing the Israel lobby with the oil lobby. They are two different things.

The Israel lobby's goal is to shape foreign policy in the Middle East. Even the lobby grops themselves admit this. On the other hand, the oil lobby's goal is to secure a profit. If the oil lobby was truly pro-Arab like you guys are suggesting, wouldn't they withhold their oil production to America till they changed their policy to meet their? No...you think they give a flying fukc about that? They just want money, money, money....

You don't think Israel does business with the oil lobby either?
Think for just a moment and you'll see how off your thinking is.

Finally, who said anything about "jewish money?" The Israel lobby is composed of non-Jewish entities as well like radical Christians. Call it what it is, "money intended to influence support for Israel."

You guys make me laugh thinking that Congress is not influenced by money

I disagree that the goal of the oil lobby is to secure a profit. Since our enemies have such a huge presence in that lobby and access to oil is a national security issue and the Congress has been bribed to pretty much forbid exploration and drilling of new fields anywhere in the US or offshore, their goal is obviously to jeopardize our national security.

Every dollar that we spend with our enemies strengthens them and weakens us.

And if you think Saudi Arabia is not our enemy then you have some serious issues.

[curious]

Originally Posted by ritehook

I also don't think it's overdoing it to now and then have a long thread on a political topic.

Not when we see 800 views of a JJ video (often well-deserved, sometimes not) or a few thou for Swede's biting but light youtube commentary (come back with it, gal).

And curious's uninhibited defense of his povs and attacks on those who disagree bring in viewers who may not otherwise read it! (He's the JJ and Swede of polit commentary!)

Tho I had a discussion with him here, was respectful of his views, and he responded by being likewise re mine. At least, we weren't using gutter language! (I was raised on the very mean streets of NY and NJ, and to this day use vulgarity as a second language. But try to keep it out of the printed word, where it shows up much lamer and dumber than when it's spoken.)

I don't attack people who disagree. I attack people who insult me, degrade me, disrespect me, call me names, call me a liar, call my service to my country into question.

And I attack people who misrepresent me.

If you can find any posts in this thread where someone actually wanted to discuss the facts you know that I did not attack them. What you are calling "attacked them" is me sticking up for myself from jackasses who insult me. None of these people even tried to discuss my original post. I find it interesting that you had nothing snarky to say to any of the jackasses that continually harass me. But if I stick up for myself I am "attacking those who disagree...".

Typical.

[eyeball]

Ritehook ..ok you got me on that off color statement" If it wasn't for Israel the whole middle east would be Muslim"..
I meant radical overthrow america types.. yeah i should be called on that one..your right