[element1286]

Originally Posted by MonkeyF0cker

That attempt at sarcasm is laughable. Ever heard of a man named Franklin Deleanor Roosevelt? His socialist New Deal policies including the Tennessee Valley Authority and the like helped to pul this country out of a little recession called the Great Depression. It might help to read a history book once in your lifetime...

I know a lot of arguments that show his policies made the Depression last longer.

[daggerkobe]

I accidentially tuned in to a conservative radio program and was shocked by what I heard.

The host actually claimed that if Obama was elected president, he would make Al Sharpton his Secretary of State and Jesse Jackson his Secretary of Defense. The guy was obviously a neo-nitwit as were all his callers.

I don't remember his name but he was promoting his book entitled "Bush: Greatest President of all time"...... crazy.

[MonkeyF0cker]

Originally Posted by element1286

I know a lot of arguments that show his policies made the Depression last longer.

I'd love to hear them. I'm sure they aren't politically motivated in any way. FDR's first New Deal only helped cut unemployment by 66% or something like that in his first term. What horrible policy...

[element1286]

http://www.newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/...px?RelNum=5409

Two economists from UCLA wrote that he prolonged the depression by 7 years. This is an article summing up the main points.

[mathdotcom]

2.) American roads and bridges are indeed in disrepair. This is fact. I don't know what else to say. Contact your local state transportation agency or look for quotes in the newspapers about the condition of the bridges in you state. It's nation wide.

3.) Today, Oil prices surged because Libya announced it will cut back oil production. This is fact in all of the news today. Why does Libya want to stick it to us? Because the Bush administration is so stupid that they will screw all of the american people in order to act tough against Libya and sue them for something that happened 20 years ago! This follows the Bush and Neo-Con mentality of aggressive fascist tendencies at the risk of economic ruin

Yes but my problem is how you relate this to the depreciation of the dollar.

[MonkeyF0cker]

Pretty funny that they say he was anti-competition while he was trying to eliminate monopolistic entities and strengthen labor unions. This is as speculative as it can possibly get.

[guitarjosh]

Originally Posted by daggerkobe

Bush is the worst president in US history.
I guess you've never read a history book
-He ignored all warnings of 9/11, allowing it to happen unabated, so he can use it as an excuse to invade Iraq.
The only way he could have stopped it was to pass things like the Patriot act, something that would have never happened before 9-11
-He bought up all the oil from private refinaries to cause a spike in oil prices back in 2001, which we have yet to recover from.
Yeah, I'm sure China and India, no new refineries, speculators, etc had nothing to do with it.
-Record deficit spending thanks to Iraq and enriching all his cronies like Dick Cheney's Haliburton.
Funny, I never heard anyone complain about Haliburton getting no bid contracts back in 1998-2000
-Responsible for over 10,000 American deaths due to his stupidity.
FDR had over 20,000 dead in the first few months after Pearl Harbor, which could have been avoided. He wanted war with Japan. But, no one cares about that.
-2 recessions
A recession is 2 consecutive quarters of negative growth. We have had 1 under Bush, and it started 6 weeks after he became president. That one is on Clinton.
-Devaluing of the US Dollar to levels never seen before
That is due to the Fed, something that should be done away with
-Lowest approval rating in presidential history with 18%

-Helped oil companies make record profits, even surpassing Wal-Mart!!!!!!
There is nothing wrong with record profits. Secondly, there is a difference between profit and profit margin. By the way, the gov't makes more profit from gas then the oil companies do
-and many many more

I'm not a supporter of Bush or McCain. I do have a problem when people are outraged by something Bush did but have no problem when a past president did the exact same thing.

[BuddyBear]

Originally Posted by daggerkobe

I accidentially tuned in to a conservative radio program and was shocked by what I heard.

The host actually claimed that if Obama was elected president, he would make Al Sharpton his Secretary of State and Jesse Jackson his Secretary of Defense. The guy was obviously a neo-nitwit as were all his callers.

I don't remember his name but he was promoting his book entitled "Bush: Greatest President of all time"...... crazy.

Don't be so sure. In fact, i think many of the neocon radio hosts are praying hard for an Obama victory so that they can complain and rile up their base. If they were real conservatives they'd be criticizing GWB left and right all day. George Bush is nothing but a walking and talking corporation.....

[daggerkobe]

I guess you've never read a history book

You mean there were other presidents with under 20% approval ratings?

The only way he could have stopped it was to pass things like the Patriot act, something that would have never happened before 9-11

You mean all those urgent presidential memos entitled "Al Qaeda plans to hijack planes" months prior to 9/11 weren't specific enough to move on?

Yeah, I'm sure China and India, no new refineries, speculators, etc had nothing to do with it.

In 2001? It had EVERYTHING to do with it. No single act up to that point had ever doubled the price of barrel of oil other than the oil embargo.

Funny, I never heard anyone complain about Haliburton getting no bid contracts back in 1998-2000

When Haliburton's competitors tried to submit bids 4 MONTHS prior to the Iraqi invasion and were turned away with assurances that there would be no invasion..... then Haliburton is awarded a no-bid contract worth BILLIONS... yeah, there's something suspicious about that.

FDR had over 20,000 dead in the first few months after Pearl Harbor, which could have been avoided. He wanted war with Japan. But, no one cares about that.

Proof? Cite the presidental notes which warned him of the impending attacks and proof that he ignored it and did nothing like Bush on 9/11.


A recession is 2 consecutive quarters of negative growth. We have had 1 under Bush, and it started 6 weeks after he became president. That one is on Clinton.

Recession began April, 2001, which is 3 months after he became president. And if you don't know we're in a recession right now, then you must be living in a cave.

That is due to the Fed, something that should be done away with

No, it's due to the trillions wasted on a personal war.

There is nothing wrong with record profits. Secondly, there is a difference between profit and profit margin. By the way, the gov't makes more profit from gas then the oil companies do

Record profits at the expense of economic growth and citizen's livelihood? You sound like a typical neocon.

[guitarjosh]

You mean there were other presidents with under 20% approval ratings?
What do approval ratings have to do about it? Nothing. James Buchanan sat back and did nothing as the country became more and more divided, and did nothing when the South left America after Lincoln won in 1860.

You mean all those urgent presidential memos entitled "Al Qaeda plans to hijack planes" months prior to 9/11 weren't specific enough to move on?

And he is going to know who plans on hijacking the planes by? He couldn't without a massive amount of surveillance

In 2001? It had EVERYTHING to do with it. No single act up to that point had ever doubled the price of barrel of oil other than the oil embargo.

Gas prices were under $2.00 back in 2002 and 2003. The first real spike happened in 2000. I remember being appalled that I had to pay $1.67 a gallon, the highest I can remember paying

When Haliburton's competitors tried to submit bids 4 MONTHS prior to the Iraqi invasion and were turned away with assurances that there would be no invasion..... then Haliburton is awarded a no-bid contract worth BILLIONS... yeah, there's something suspicious about that.

How many companies could handle a job that size back in 2003? 1, Schlemburger, owned and opperated by the French Gov't. They neither had the equipment ready to go nor the security clearences, which Haliburton got during the CLinton years. Again, why no outrage in 1998?

Proof? Cite the presidental notes which warned him of the impending attacks and proof that he ignored it and did nothing like Bush on 9/11.

How about the McCollum memo, an 8 point plan to provoke a war with Japan. One of them, cutting off Japan's oil, led Richmond Turner to tell FDR that what he did was an act of war.

Frank Knox was the Navy Secretary in 1941. When he visited FDR to tell him of the devistation of the Pearl Harbor attack, the President told Secretary Knox that "he expected to get hit but not hurt". Now why in the world would he expect the Japaneese to "hit" us?

Recession began April, 2001, which is 3 months after he became president. And if you don't know we're in a recession right now, then you must be living in a cave.

Fine, 6 weeks, 10, whatever. The point is that the 2001 recession isn't the fault of Bush. His policies weren't fully implemented and didn't have time to change anything. The Nasdaq lost about 65% of its value between March of 2000 and November 2000. The recession was on Clinton

No, it's due to the trillions wasted on a personal war.

The Fed keeps pumping out more money


Record profits at the expense of economic growth and citizen's livelihood? You sound like a typical neocon.
That's the free market. Again, there is a difference between profit and profit margin. Out of every dollar oil companies profit, the keep about 10 cents.

[daggerkobe]

What do approval ratings have to do with anything? Uh, everything? Politicians check their approval ratings like they check their horoscopes. Many even shape their policies around it. Why wouldnt they..... their politcal careers are dependent on how many votes they get. So why wouldnt the opinions of those who lived under the leadership and policies of the president not be important in determining their legacy? Its politics 101.

The FBI had the names of all the hijackers on file. Even the field agents were begging their superiors to put surveillance on them but were rebuffed. All Bush had to do was have a face to face meeting with his anti-terrorism expert and he would have got all the necessary information to stop it. He could have warned the airliners and they would have stepped up security, banned all sharp objects, fortifed cockpit doors and maybe even put airmarshalls on board. But he did nothing but play hide and seek with his anti-terrorism expert.

[daggerkobe]

Avg gas prices in 2000 were $1.10. Where were u supposedy paying 50 cents more than everyone else?

In 2002 we were already over $2. Over $2.50 by 2003.

And what were the reasons Boots and Coots International couldn't handle the job in Iraq? Wild Well Control Inc? GSM Consulting? None whatsoever. Considering Boots and Wild were later subcontracted by Halliburton to do the very job they were supposedly not qualifed to do. The insult to injury was that not only did they do a good job, they would have done the job for 70% less than what Cheney's company got. How's that for fraud?

[daggerkobe]

The fact that the recession began a full month after your claim is significant. A lot can happen in a month. But then again we were still in the thick of a recession in 2003, which shows how effective his polices were.

Oil companies profits are actually closer to 12% Highest amongst other industries. Hey why don't milk, beer, bread companies double and triple their prices. I mean profit is great and that's what the free market is all about right? Greed and price gouging go hand in hand with free economy, right?

[guitarjosh]

Originally Posted by daggerkobe

The FBI had the names of all the hijackers on file. Even the field agents were begging their superiors to put surveillance on them but were rebuffed. All Bush had to do was have a face to face meeting with his anti-terrorism expert and he would have got all the necessary information to stop it. He could have warned the airliners and they would have stepped up security, banned all sharp objects, fortifed cockpit doors and maybe even put airmarshalls on board. But he did nothing but play hide and seek with his anti-terrorism expert.

Bush couldn't have gone through all the red tape to ban sharp objects, make the cockpit doors tougher, and put air marshalls the planes. He would have had to make those changes in a month or 2.

Again, why are you so mad at Bush for this and not FDR for Pearl Harbor? He told his Naval Secretary that he new Japan would attack. He told Admiral Hart, commander of the recently sunk Asiatic Fleet that if he knew the damage the Japanese Navy would have done to ours, he "would have stalled them for another year". Think about that. He knew an attack was coming, and he could have avoided it. What would your response be if Bush said after 9-11,"I knew they would hit us but not hurt us. If I knew how bad they would hurt us, I would have stalled them for another year".

The sad thing is that if FDR would have accepted Japan's offer of a 90 day cooling off period and stalled, we probably could have avoided any involvement in WW2. Which is worse:Iraq and 9-11, or all the American lives lost in WW2?

[daggerkobe]

What red tape??????? Those very security measures were instituted days after 9-11!!!!!!!!!!!!

I couldn't care less about FDR. First, I wasn't even born then. Second you're just trying to deflect attention from the incompetence of Bush. He's the one who got the warning for 8 full months and did NOTHING!!!!!!!! He wouldnt even meet with his anti-terrorism expert until a day after 9-11.

Bush is the worst president in history and no one will ever come close in incompetence and stupidity.