[jeffries]

They been playing excellent all year and have one of the highest ranked defenses in the league. Of the 6 Giants losses, 2 were to the Dallas Cowboys, 1 was to the Undefeated N.E Patriots and One was a must win for Washington to stay in the playoffs. It was not a must win game for the Giants. Look how they played the following week against Buffalo when the playoffs were on the line. Also, if Eli Manning and the Giants can play against the Bucs the way they did against New England, you better believe Tampa Bay won't stand a chance.

I see Jeremy Shockey's injury as a big loss, but Kevin Boss has played excellent tight end in place of Shockey with 2 TD's since he's started already.

Giants - ML.

Everyone thinks the Bucs will take this game, but this is gonna be the first year of Eli Mannings Career where he will finally make it past the 1st round of the playoffs.

[Timetopay]

Bucs win by 10

[jeffries]

Not a chance

[CrazyLou]

After the Giants played everyone all 4 quarters, with not having a bye, and nearly beating the champs, I decided to fade them the next week and play on them coming out flat.

I will say, the one thing that has me like is how ultra conservative Gruden was. He over rested. So that tells me this is going to be a sloppy game, not necessarily turnover wise, but just overall execution, a lot of punts...

[Illusion]

Originally Posted by crazyl

I will say, the one thing that has me like is how ultra conservative Gruden was. He over rested. So that tells me this is going to be a sloppy game, not necessarily turnover wise, but just overall execution, a lot of punts...

I am thinking the exact same thing. I love the under here and plan on hitting it pretty hard.

[astro61200]

I like the Bucs in this one... and 64% of the public is on NY, so not sure where you get everyone likes the Bucs

[outdrawed]

Originally Posted by astro61200

I like the Bucs in this one... and 64% of the public is on NY, so not sure where you get everyone likes the Bucs

Was going to say the same thing. The public is much higher on the team that almost dethroned the Pats than the very boring, 9-7 in a weak division Bucs. Quick, name an offensive player who's last name doesn't start with G.

[pokernut9999]

Originally Posted by outdrawed

Was going to say the same thing. The public is much higher on the team that almost dethroned the Pats than the very boring, 9-7 in a weak division Bucs. Quick, name an offensive player who's last name doesn't start with G.

Askew, Stevens, Smith, Stovall, Hilliard, Clayton, Williams, McCown to name a few.


Is there a thing about betting on or against a team thats leading passer, rusher, and receiver last name starts with a G ?

[outdrawed]

Originally Posted by pokernut9999

Askew, Stevens, Smith, Stovall, Hilliard, Clayton, Williams, McCown to name a few.


Is there a thing about betting on or against a team thats leading passer, rusher, and receiver last name starts with a G ?

Do you try to show me up after every post I make? You're really annoying, and most of the time completely devoid of any intelligent thought. McCown and Williams aren't starting/playing. I don't know who Askew and Stovall are, and Hilliard and Clayton are both quiet, unflashy #3 receivers. And yet even with such a random mix of guys, FO had them 10th in overall offensive DVOA. My point is that the public sees TB as a very weak team, who probably doesn't belong in the playoffs because they're made up of a bunch of no-names, when the fact of the matter is, they are an efficient, solid team.

[pokernut9999]

You said offensive player (period). Did you say starter or if you can include lineman? Do not know why you omitted the defense which is Tampa Bays strength.

If you do not know who all the players are you should not try to sound like an expert all the time.

The Giants on paper are probably the better team anyway and the public (guess the privates never bet) always like the last game memory.

[outdrawed]

I omitted the defense because it was completely irrelevant to my point (which amazingly enough, you missed again), which is TB is thought to have a very weak offense because they don't have a bunch of big name players.

I'm also pretty sure I don't need to know who TB's fullback and #5 WR is in order to know they're the better team than the Giants.

[pokernut9999]

You should not ask someone to name players, then cry like a baby when they do.

Joey Galloway is a big name receiver and Jeff Garcia has won a lot of games. He led Philly to the playoffs last year and took SF to playoffs so a qb taking 3 different teams to playoffs is a name player.

Player to player Giants are the better team anyway. They play in he toughest divison in the NFC and this is their 3rd staight trip to playoffs and Tampa plays in the worst division.


But you already know this. Watch the clock , dont let time run out.

[outdrawed]

Cry like a baby? Ok, whatever you say.

If the Giants are the better team, then they haven't played like it over the course of a 16-game season, and if they didn't play like over the course of a 16-game season, there's no reason to suspect they'll play like it come this weekend. I also have no idea what going to the playoffs 3 years in a row has to do with this year, but ok. TB has been better offensively, defensively, and on special teams. Interesting stat. Despite only scoring ~21 pts a game, they had the best defensive average starting field position. This is a nod to the fact that they rarely turn the ball over (2nd fewest TOs/dr behind only NE), which prevents the opposition from getting the ball with a shorter distance to the end zone.

[bbyhill]

Put Manning on his arse and he gets to nervous and starts making mistakes.Bucs win this one

[jeffries]

Not a chance. I'm just not seeing the Bucs taking this game. The spread even list the Giants as like 3 point underdogs, so Tampa Bay isn't the big time favorite here. Giants got one of the best defenses in the league, and aside from that, the Giants can score. There offense isn't the best in the league, but they damn sure are far from the worst. Manning passer complete rating is iight. Only thing that may be a problem is the amount of interceptions Manning may throw.

I'm still taking the Giants on this one, mainly because I got confidence in my hometeam and I know how well their defense can play.

[outdrawed]

The Giants have one of the best defenses in the league? Since when?

TB's defense >>> NY's defense.

It's not really close, either.

[pokernut9999]

He said one of the best ----which they are

#2 in NFC and #7 overall.

Yes Tampa is #1 in the NFC but when you play Atlanta twice as compared to Dallas twice that will skew the stats a little. And throw in Carolina twice and got the makings of some good stats filler.

[outdrawed]

If your reasoning for picking a team is because "they have one of the best defenses in the league" when they don't even have the best defense in the game, I'm going to point it out. And using only yardage as evidence is misleading. They are 25th in takeaways/drive, and 16th in Points given up per drive, which suggests that they are not very good in the red zone.

[jeffries]

The Giants already proved what they are capable of against the New England Patriots. Still, I'm gunning for the Giants. You completely took my post out of context to dude. I didn't say the Giants were going to win because of JUST their defense. Defense is 50 % of the game. Shit if their defense is stoppin the Bucs, you can expect a low scoring game between both these clubs, because the Giants offense isn't one of the best either, but far from the worst. Your lookin at two teams with Great defense, but the Giants just got more momentum going into this matchup, not to mention Manning has been very consistent in the warm weather and the team alone has done very well away from home..

you can't ignore the facts. I would hate for anyone to debate this with me, then look really stupid when the Giants win. The only difference here is i'm just pointing out key facts, and that leads me to conclude that the Giants will run over the Bucs. I'm not guaranteeing it, but I highly favor the Giants in this game.

[outdrawed]

What facts? I've already put out some "facts" that you haven't replied to

TB offense > NY offense
TB defense > NY defense

tell me which of those you think are wrong so I can prove you wrong.

[pokernut9999]

Originally Posted by outdrawed

What facts? I've already put out some "facts" that you haven't replied to

TB offense > NY offense
TB defense > NY defense

tell me which of those you think are wrong so I can prove you wrong.

Offense

Giants 331 ypg 23.3 ppg
Bucs 326 ypg 20.9 ppg

What are you using to base your opinion on? Is there something other than points or yards to determine the best offense?

Good thing neither is playing Philadelphia as they have they have the #4 offense to go with the #5 defense.

[outdrawed]

Giants points per drive: 1.83
Bucs points per drive: 1.75

Giants TO per drive: .180
Bucs TO per drive: .100

Which offense would you rather have. The team that scores .08 points less per drive or the team that turns it over almost twice as often? The Giants scored around 20 total points more than the Bucs on offense (335 to 315) with 3 more chances (drives), but turned it over 18 more times, which is probably worth close to 40 points or so when you factor in field position.

Now, that's not adjusted for schedule strength, but DVOA is, and footballoutsiders has the Giants with -2.5% offensive DVOA (19th) and the Bucs at 7.7% offensive DVOA (10th). The Bucs may not score a bunch of points, but with less than a TO a game, they rarely put their defense in a bad position, which the Giants do often.

[pokernut9999]

With all those great stats you have they should win it all

Guess that is why they have the worst record of any team in the playoffs coming out of the easiest division. Go figure !!!

[outdrawed]

Originally Posted by pokernut9999

With all those great stats you have they should win it all

Guess that is why they have the worst record of any team in the playoffs coming out of the easiest division. Go figure !!!

Your sarcasm makes you look dumb.

I never said TB was the best team in the playoffs. I said they were better than the Giants. I stand by that statement. The Bucs estimated wins and Pythag have them at 10 wins each, so really they ran bad (unlike the Giants who are between 8 and 8.5 wins, but I'm sure you'll tell me that the Giants just find ways to win games.)

Look at the Bucs losses. A week 1 loss at Seattle, home vs Indy, @ Detroit, home vs Jax, @Houston (without Garcia), and two losses at the end of the season with most of the starters not playing. Not a single bad loss of the bunch, except for maybe the first week of the season. So you keep pretending that records are the best way to determine a team's ability and I'll look at the stats that have been proven to be a better indicator of a team's future success.

[pokernut9999]

Yea and Giants lost to

Dallas twice
GB
NE
Wash
Minn

What weak ass teams they lost to. Keep going by all the computer predictions. Last time I looked your record is what gets you in the playoffs and then who scores the most points each game moves on. I have no opinion on the game but your constant so called facts are full of shit and are not facts but your warped sense of reality

[outdrawed]

Thankfully I said nothing about the Giants' schedule.

Do you ever have any opinion of any game? Every post I see you make is usually just trying to call me out

[pokernut9999]

I never pick games I would lose if I did. Never was good at it.

[imgv94]

Originally Posted by outdrawed

Was going to say the same thing. The public is much higher on the team that almost dethroned the Pats than the very boring, 9-7 in a weak division Bucs. Quick, name an offensive player who's last name doesn't start with G.

Pretty clever man.

[jeffries]

What you have is two teams with great defense playing against each other. This has nothing to do with comparing defenses and offenses. Tampa Bay hasn't played the Giants Defense so let's just see how well they do come gametime shall we.

Enough bickering dude, just leave it at here and drop the subject man. Just see how the game turns out Sunday

[Wheell]

Be careful with DVOA, it's methodology for dealing with quality of opposition is deeply flawed. Teams that play softer schedules have an edge.

Actually, I should go a bit further. DVOA is a VERY good tool, but I want to just warn you from believing the NYG are a below average team while believeing TB is one of the best (not counting Indy and NE).

[outdrawed]

Originally Posted by Wheell

Be careful with DVOA, it's methodology for dealing with quality of opposition is deeply flawed. Teams that play softer schedules have an edge.

Actually, I should go a bit further. DVOA is a VERY good tool, but I want to just warn you from believing the NYG are a below average team while believeing TB is one of the best (not counting Indy and NE).

Considering the D in DVOA stands for "Defense-Adjusted", you're wrong. It factors in strength of schedule, like I said.

[outdrawed]

Originally Posted by jeffries

What you have is two teams with great defense playing against each other. This has nothing to do with comparing defenses and offenses. Tampa Bay hasn't played the Giants Defense so let's just see how well they do come gametime shall we.

Enough bickering dude, just leave it at here and drop the subject man. Just see how the game turns out Sunday

So in other words, you have no desire to back up your pick and discuss the game and would rather stick to "let's just see what happens" so that if NY covers/wins (which is very possible), you can run your mouth, and if they lose, you can disappear into anonymity, just another 20-post missing person of the sbr forums.

Great idea.

[VegasDave]

Yikes, I came in here to read some takes on the football game, not a 6th grade pillow fight.

[outdrawed]

usc,

Take the better team at home giving only a FG. That's my take.

[jeffries]

Originally Posted by outdrawed

So in other words, you have no desire to back up your pick and discuss the game and would rather stick to "let's just see what happens" so that if NY covers/wins (which is very possible), you can run your mouth, and if they lose, you can disappear into anonymity, just another 20-post missing person of the sbr forums.

Great idea.

Haha yea pretty much! What is it with you man? You'r efighting with everyone about this. You don't see me arguing with people about their pick that Tampa will defeat the NY Giants. I'm telling you straight up, I get the Giants games, I ben watching them for years. What I see is a team FINALLY capable of passing the 1st round. They sure did give Romo a test for his money the first time these teams met up in the Reg. Season and Manning and the Giants put up a hell of a fight against the Patriots. Just quit it with stats. Stats don't GUARANTEE victory. Unless you see either the Bucs or Giants play regularly, you can't sit there and tell everyone here $hit like the Bucs will win because you looked up some stat figures online. $hit look at these NBA games, one of the leagues worst teams defeated the leagues 2nd best, Memphis over San Antonio. This aint the NBA, its NFL and I know your gonna start bringing that $hit up, but I'm telling you its a fairly even matchup, but in my opinion the Bucs just won't win. I can't see it happening. Honestly, I'm not seeing it