[williams22]

Let's get this straight, Lebron, and the Cavs as a whole, had a miserable game last night. No excuses, nothing.

However, I find it sickening how many of you seemed to be waiting for him to fail so you could jump all over him. I've never seen so many people be so excited that someone failed. It was an awful performance, but it's one game and the series still isn't over. I can't remember another athlete being rooted against in the way many of you on here are with Lebron. It's not as if he's done anything morally offensive to turn people against him (no rape allegations, no drug scandals, no infidelities, etc.), yet it's as if many of you are celebrating after last night. Every star has had bad games, it happens.

What I've seen absolutely no mention of so far is anyone giving any credit to the Celtics. First of all, defensively they have been damn near perfect against Lebron. When tuned in, their starting 5 still plays better team defense than any team in the league. In fact, I struggle to think of a single blown rotation on Lebron last night from any guy on the court. Many of you on here have absolutely no understanding of the game of basketball so maybe you don't see it, but not only have the Celtics been perfect in their doubling and hedging on Lebron, but they have altered their rotations to jump out on Lebron's first and second go-to passes like no team this year has been able to do. This is why you've seen Lebron get doubled and then seem to freeze in the air with the ball, very uncharacteristic of him but it's being forced by the defense.

Second, the Celtics execution on offense yesterday was the single best performance of any playoff game thus far. Every single person on the team was hitting their shots. Any time the Cavs adjusted to stop the hot hand, whether it be Rondo, Pierce, Garnett, etc., the Celtics countered perfectly. I don't know if Doc was making the calls from the sideline or if the players were reading it themselves, but they were absolutely in sync on both ends of the floor last night. Make no mistake about it, the Celtics are playing by far their best basketball of the season right now.

That said, this is not an excuse for Lebron's or anyone else. Great players need to be able to adjust and last night Lebron struggled to find the right adjustment. His jumper was clearly not there last night, whether it be because of his elbow or not. This allowed the Celtics to go under every screen being set and even further shrink the floor. I'm sure Lebron spent a good amount of time watching tape last night and will hopefully find a different way to attack.

Again, I'm not defending the performance, but let's give credit where credit is due and stop with knee-jerk overreactions.

[lyon804]

I think what you are speaking about as far as the the looking for Lebron to fail comes from the older crowd such as myself. People like me realize he is a very fine player and one game will not change that. The problem with the media and this "younger" generation is that you have already annointed him is the very best player to ever lace it up. Granted, he is a freak of talent but he is not greatness. There is a huge difference between freakish talent and greatness..


Me, personally I have no personal vendatta against Lebron. He has never harmed me or my family and by all accounts he seems to be a decent human being.


As far as his bad game.... well, bad games happen willy. Last nite was beyond a bad performance. It was epic. I don't care if he made one shot from the field he could have played a better game. He lacked heart,intensity,emotion. He seemed disinterested. His attitude was like ho-hum no biggie. That is not legendary stuff right there. A true champion would have done it in other ways if his shot wasn't falling. He could have defended better, rebounded better. There were many things with his game that was bad other than his jump shot.


Sure the Celts are a fine veteran team that knows how to play, but do you really think they can stop Lebron?? please. He is 6'8 250 and can handle the ball and take people to the rack off the dribble and once he elevates there is no defense.

I have no explanation for his performance other than to say there is something else rather than a bad jumper or sore elbow last nite.

[DaAce]

Its about authenticity for the game. Not media handed superstars. He would be a great player without the media but for the fact that he willingly allows himself to be a puppet by higher strings is where i stop caring. Yesterdays post game conference he claimed that he spoiled us with his performances and that this is why this game is being spotlighted the way it is. F*ck outta here with that shit. I support authenticity, not glamour and glitz. All those smiles and comedy acts during the regular season dont mean shit now.

[DaAce]

“If you can lead 11 of the best guys in the world, you can lead anybody,” James said Monday. “If I can lead Kobe Bryant and MVPs, I should be able to lead Daniel Gibson.”

That wraps it up for me... anyone who saw the olympics as a pure basketball fan can only laugh at this

[lakerboy]

Boston played very good last night and obviously deserved much credit for there performance. This is the same boston squad that Lebron dismantled in game 3 easily. To me Lebron looked as if he was really out of it and not interested in being there. Even on that 3-1 versus him he just looked scared. The guy didnt look okay last night.


As for all of his haters looking to get on him - its pretty simple to me. When he is doing great all his lovers are in a rush to anoint him to godlike status so both sides are gonna have there moment and him having games like last night was a very rare opportunity for his non fans to get a good laugh in.


The series isnt over yet and you never know what can happen but it reminds me of how Boston shut Kobe down in the finals a few years ago.

[Snowball]

hear hear to williams thread starter post !!

[big0mar]

Originally Posted by lakerboy

Boston played very good last night and obviously deserved much credit for there performance. This is the same boston squad that Lebron dismantled in game 3 easily. To me Lebron looked as if he was really out of it and not interested in being there. Even on that 3-1 versus him he just looked scared. The guy didnt look okay last night. As for all of his haters looking to get on him - its pretty simple to me. When he is doing great all his lovers are in a rush to anoint him to godlike status so both sides are gonna have there moment and him having games like last night was a very rare opportunity for his non fans to get a good laugh in. The series isnt over yet and you never know what can happen but it reminds me of how Boston shut Kobe down in the finals a few years ago.

And the haters are just as sickening as the fan boys. And each just fuels the other side.

[lakerboy]

Originally Posted by big0mar

And the haters are just as sickening as the fan boys. And each just fuels the other side.

The haters have few opportunities to hate. The fans have more chance for love but i hear your point.

[williams22]

Originally Posted by lakerboy

Boston played very good last night and obviously deserved much credit for there performance. This is the same boston squad that Lebron dismantled in game 3 easily. To me Lebron looked as if he was really out of it and not interested in being there. Even on that 3-1 versus him he just looked scared. The guy didnt look okay last night.


As for all of his haters looking to get on him - its pretty simple to me. When he is doing great all his lovers are in a rush to anoint him to godlike status so both sides are gonna have there moment and him having games like last night was a very rare opportunity for his non fans to get a good laugh in.


The series isnt over yet and you never know what can happen but it reminds me of how Boston shut Kobe down in the finals a few years ago.

The difference is the fans have the vast majority of the past 7 years as evidence, the haters have a single game.

The reason this is getting so blown out of proportion (or perhaps not) is that if Cleveland is to lose this series it will provide for the highest likelihood of Lebron leaving of any possible scenario.

However, I've still never seen so many people salivate over watching someone fail. Kobe has had plenty of awful playoff games as well and never got such a reaction, yet he's a much less likable person. This is what perplexes me.

[DaAce]

Im intrigued to see how great he can become cause he's physically blessed beyond what i've ever seen on a basically court. His reactions when he doesnt get his way is whats truly pathetic.

[lyon804]

Originally Posted by lakerboy

The haters have few opportunities to hate. The fans have more chance for love but i hear your point.

I see it differently in respect to the dislike.. My hate is directed to all of this youth that wan't to suck his dick. To me it is disgusting. He is bigger than Michael Jordan was as far as young pukes loving him and media hype. Jordan did not have the following Lebron has. Jordan, while great had his following but he was a legit winner who always came to the party with the goods. I have never seen Jordan play like Lebron in a game like that.Jordan was completely unstoppable in many ways other than scoring.


If I was not from this planent and had not seen the last 25 yrs of NBA i would assume Lebron James was a better player the Jordan,Kobe, Majic, Bird, or any other true champion that has the hardware. he doesn't deserve all the praise. he should have to earn his respect the same way the others earned it. That's were I fall out with all the hype. Today's society want's to crown him before he has earned it. I never seen anybody crowning Jordan,Kobe,Bird, or Majic before they took it. Jordan, was being called out every year until he won. His critics said he would never be a champion as a scoring leader.


Lebron needs to earn it before all this king stuff and all the other hoopla surrounding him by the young pukes of America and the liberal media.

[jgiun1]

Originally Posted by DaAce

“If you can lead 11 of the best guys in the world, you can lead anybody,” James said Monday. “If I can lead Kobe Bryant and MVPs, I should be able to lead Daniel Gibson.”

That wraps it up for me... anyone who saw the olympics as a pure basketball fan can only laugh at this

yea, of course James said it.......ego maniac

[zigomanisinsider]

williams come out of hiding

[lyon804]

Originally Posted by williams22

The difference is the fans have the vast majority of the past 7 years as evidence, the haters have a single game.

The reason this is getting so blown out of proportion (or perhaps not) is that if Cleveland is to lose this series it will provide for the highest likelihood of Lebron leaving of any possible scenario.

However, I've still never seen so many people salivate over watching someone fail. Kobe has had plenty of awful playoff games as well and never got such a reaction, yet he's a much less likable person. This is what perplexes me.

That is very true, but at the same time nobody was crowning Kobe either and the media didn't swing on him 24/7. Kobe also will always live in Shaq's shadow to some degree. Kobe was not afforded the same favor of the media for whatever reasons.


Before you bash keep in mind my thoughts are objective. I am not a fan of either and could careless if any of them won a championship.


The Media has put Lebron on a pedestal of legendary status and like I said in my above post if I was from another planent and had not watched the last 25yrs of basketball I would think lebron was the best player ever to play. Lebron is a very good player but he hasn't earned it if you know what I mean. US Oldschool poeple want to see somebody earn it before we give them the world. You let Lebron get some championships then we will officially annoint him but until then keep it in perspective.

[williams22]

Originally Posted by lyon804

I see it differently in respect to the dislike.. My hate is directed to all of this youth that wan't to suck his dick. To me it is disgusting. He is bigger than Michael Jordan was as far as young pukes loving him and media hype. Jordan did not have the following Lebron has. Jordan, while great had his following but he was a legit winner who always came to the party with the goods. I have never seen Jordan play like Lebron in a game like that.Jordan was completely unstoppable in many ways other than scoring.


If I was not from this planent and had not seen the last 25 yrs of NBA i would assume Lebron James was a better player the Jordan,Kobe, Majic, Bird, or any other true champion that has the hardware. he doesn't deserve all the praise. he should have to earn his respect the same way the others earned it. That's were I fall out with all the hype. Today's society want's to crown him before he has earned it. I never seen anybody crowning Jordan,Kobe,Bird, or Majic before they took it. Jordan, was being called out every year until he won. His critics said he would never be a champion as a scoring leader.


Lebron needs to earn it before all this king stuff and all the other hoopla surrounding him by the young pukes of America and the liberal media.

I disagree. I don't think Lebron is worshiped anywhere near the way MJ was. In the 90s you could never find someone to argue against Jordan. Everyone was in love with him. It was absolutely cool and acceptable to be a Bulls fan simply because Jordan was there. Lebron doesn't have that same following.

Sure, there is more coverage of Lebron now than there was of Jordan, but a lot of that has to do with the way the media has changed. Lebron has probably spent twice the amount of time in front of a camera already that Jordan did in his entire career. I absolutely loved watching Jordan, to the point where I had hundreds of games recorded on VHS tapes as a kid. However, the guy was an absolute prick. The difference is we as the public didn't get to see it because there wasn't nearly as much coverage as there is now. I understand why you think everyone worships Lebron, but I just don't think that is true. Whether you like him or not, the guy has faced higher expectations than anyone in the history of sports and has always found a way to not only match them, but to exceed him. That is why I find him to be truly remarkable. Last night was the first time since Lebron's high school years that I ever felt let down by him. Watching yesterday's game was an incredibly painful experience for me, but now that I've slept on it and have a cooler head I can't help but think how amazing it is that he's gone this far before having a letdown moment like this.

[lakerboy]

Kobe and Jordan were/are pricks and winners.

Nice guys finish last.

[williams22]

Originally Posted by lakerboy

Kobe and Jordan were/are pricks and winners.

Nice guys finish last.

Sure, you can be cliche. My question is why are so many people rooting so adamantly against the nice guy winning? I honestly think the fact that he is a nice, charismatic guy bothers people and fuels a hatred through deep-seated jealousy.

[jgiun1]

But what I think makes a Super Star is how you lead the team, knowing when to make shots & when to pass the ball & making the whole team better behind you........he's clearly far from that, great player now, but far from Super Star status like Kobe and Jordan. They made even shitty players look better behind them......imo

[lakerboy]

Originally Posted by williams22

Sure, you can be cliche. My question is why are so many people rooting so adamantly against the nice guy winning? I honestly think the fact that he is a nice, charismatic guy bothers people and fuels a hatred through deep-seated jealousy.

I just think that like lyon said most that hate him dont like the fact that he has been crowned without winning yet. I actually feel bad for the guy today- he probably went home and balled in his wifes lap. Or he didnt care. He said he was "great" after the game. How could he say that?

[lyon804]

Originally Posted by williams22

I disagree. I don't think Lebron is worshiped anywhere near the way MJ was. In the 90s you could never find someone to argue against Jordan. Everyone was in love with him. It was absolutely cool and acceptable to be a Bulls fan simply because Jordan was there. Lebron doesn't have that same following.

Sure, there is more coverage of Lebron now than there was of Jordan, but a lot of that has to do with the way the media has changed. Lebron has probably spent twice the amount of time in front of a camera already that Jordan did in his entire career. I absolutely loved watching Jordan, to the point where I had hundreds of games recorded on VHS tapes as a kid. However, the guy was an absolute prick. The difference is we as the public didn't get to see it because there wasn't nearly as much coverage as there is now. I understand why you think everyone worships Lebron, but I just don't think that is true. Whether you like him or not, the guy has faced higher expectations than anyone in the history of sports and has always found a way to not only match them, but to exceed him. That is why I find him to be truly remarkable. Last night was the first time since Lebron's high school years that I ever felt let down by him. Watching yesterday's game was an incredibly painful experience for me, but now that I've slept on it and have a cooler head I can't help but think how amazing it is that he's gone this far before having a letdown moment like this.

again, i want to make it clear you are entitled to your opinions as well. I was just trying to give you some insight from the "other side"

I also want to make it clear I have no personal problem with Lebron. he seems like a great guy that has handled his enormous success as well as somebody can his age or any other age for that manner.


Again, what I don't like is the worshipping of another human being..especailly one that doesn't have all the goods. and I dont want to argue about his teammates. We can always make excuses.

Lebron is one of the best players I have watched. He individually is a top 5 talent in the last 25 yrs. But again until he is a champion we need to keep things in perspective.

[big0mar]

Originally Posted by lyon804

That is very true, but at the same time nobody was crowning Kobe either and the media didn't swing on him 24/7. Kobe also will always live in Shaq's shadow to some degree. Kobe was not afforded the same favor of the media for whatever reasons. Before you bash keep in mind my thoughts are objective. I am not a fan of either and could careless if any of them won a championship. The Media has put Lebron on a pedestal of legendary status and like I said in my above post if I was from another planent and had not watched the last 25yrs of basketball I would think lebron was the best player ever to play. Lebron is a very good player but he hasn't earned it if you know what I mean. US Oldschool poeple want to see somebody earn it before we give them the world. You let Lebron get some championships then we will officially annoint him but until then keep it in perspective.

And you don't think LeBron earned the praise he got? You don't think dominating in HS; coming to the NBA straight from HS and making that transition better than anyone else has; putting up numbers that haven't been seen since Robertson and Jordan is enough to earn your respect?

After he has done all that, he hasn't earned your respect, because Danny Ferry hasn't assembled a championship team around him???

[williams22]

Originally Posted by lakerboy

I just think that like lyon said most that hate him dont like the fact that he has been crowned without winning yet. I actually feel bad for the guy today- he probably went home and balled in his wifes lap. Or he didnt care. He said he was "great" after the game. How could he say that?

That's reasonable, and I've always said he needs to win. He'll have plenty of opportunities to do so. You can't honestly think he didn't care. I'm sure he barely slept last night.

[lakerboy]

As the old saying goes " if you cant take the heat get out of the kitchen". I think Lebron never even got into the kitchen last night. Now it wouldnt surprise me at all to see him have 40 points tomorrow night either. Williams it must be disturbing to see your team blown out at home 2 games in a row. 3 times this year Boston has blown out the cavs at quicken loans arena. I guess the opening night shit kicking was a sign for the future.

[lyon804]

Originally Posted by big0mar

And you don't think LeBron earned the praise he got? You don't think dominating in HS; coming to the NBA straight from HS and making that transition better than anyone else has; putting up numbers that haven't been seen since Robertson and Jordan is enough to earn your respect?

After he has done all that, he hasn't earned your respect, because Danny Ferry hasn't assembled a championship team around him???

Yes, I respect him as a player, but I don't want to suck his dick like you and others.

[HoulihansTX]

Lets just get to the point.... Mike Brown is failing, and working for a long vacation.

Playing Shaq extended minutes, taking Boobie off the bench after he hasnt seen minutes since the reg season.

His rotations suck, and he has the trump card line-up, but he has no idea. Its like he wants to get fired.

[big0mar]

Originally Posted by lyon804

Yes, I respect him as a player, but I don't want to suck his dick like you and others.

Great insight

I'm pretty sure if you look at my posts prior to today, you'll see I could care less about LeBron.

[williams22]

Originally Posted by HoulihansTX

Lets just get to the point.... Mike Brown is failing, and working for a long vacation.

Playing Shaq extended minutes, taking Boobie off the bench after he hasnt seen minutes since the reg season.

His rotations suck, and he has the trump card line-up, but he has no idea. Its like he wants to get fired.

Did you notice Lebron's reaction when he got taken out midway through the 2nd quarter last night? He was dumbfounded as to why he was coming out of the game. Mike Brown needs to go small against the Celtics. A lineup of Varejao/Jamison/Lebron/West/Moon absolutely terrifies the Celtics, yet we haven't seen it yet.

[jgiun1]

Originally Posted by big0mar

Great insight

I'm pretty sure if you look at my posts prior to today, you'll see I could care less about LeBron.

I seen some of your other posts and you seem to want to get under peoples skin with some of the crap you post........middle man of any argument on a post

[williams22]

Originally Posted by lakerboy

As the old saying goes " if you cant take the heat get out of the kitchen". I think Lebron never even got into the kitchen last night. Now it wouldnt surprise me at all to see him have 40 points tomorrow night either. Williams it must be disturbing to see your team blown out at home 2 games in a row. 3 times this year Boston has blown out the cavs at quicken loans arena. I guess the opening night shit kicking was a sign for the future.

Almost as disturbing as it must have been watching Kobe and the Lakers crumble against the Celtics in the 2008 finals.

[williams22]

Originally Posted by jgiun1

But what I think makes a Super Star is how you lead the team, knowing when to make shots & when to pass the ball & making the whole team better behind you........he's clearly far from that, great player now, but far from Super Star status like Kobe and Jordan. They made even shitty players look better behind them......imo

If you truly believe this then you clearly don't know basketball.

[lyon804]

Originally Posted by williams22

That's reasonable, and I've always said he needs to win. He'll have plenty of opportunities to do so. You can't honestly think he didn't care. I'm sure he barely slept last night.

LB and I are a little "older" and we share similar views. I am glad you see we ain't bad guys because we thought last nite was funny. It has less to do with Lebron and more to do about the shocking culture created around him.

We all realize the freakish talent he has and he will have many great years ahead of him and opportunities to win championships.

The media and the public has over did it some with him. As far as Lebron goes I have no problems with the guy. He is actually enjoyable to watch and amazing the things he can do. We all see that Willy it's just the worshipping of the "king" that has gotten a little tiresome over the years. He is the most worshipped player in my life time and I have seen many HOF's with Rings come and go.

[big0mar]

Originally Posted by jgiun1

I seen some of your other posts and you seem to want to get under peoples skin with some of the crap you post........middle man of any argument on a post

Which posts are you referring to?

[wrongturn]

the reason there are a lot of "haters" is because of his poster "we are all witness". what does that really mean if you don't show up with so many watching at a critical home game. it is no surprise that many are ridiculing him.

[lakerboy]

Originally Posted by williams22

Almost as disturbing as it must have been watching Kobe and the Lakers crumble against the Celtics in the 2008 finals.

They lost big in game 6- dont try and make this the same cause its not gonna work. Your cavs got blown out at home 2 times in a row in the same series. That is not acceptable and you know that. LA wasnt expected to make the finals that year. The cavs have the #1 record in basketball and high expectations. Lets not try and compare apples to oranges.

[jgiun1]

Originally Posted by williams22

If you truly believe this then you clearly don't know basketball.

Well how many leaders from any sport walk off the court and leave the players to do the mid court hand shakes after a game. Never seen that myself in any sport