[Jimmy0607]

Unfukkin real

[Eccocide]

No doubt. My night went from being up major units to be down on that pathetic judging alone.

[Mikail]

No question about it. Rua won that fight. I had Machida and was kissing my Money goodbye when I got a gift!

[thezzzone]

Ive been wondering how long it would take to hire boxing judges for the UFC....LOOKS LIKE WE'RE JUST ABOUT THERE NOW...too too bad!!!!

[Boddhissatva]

Very very close fight...

personally...I thought it was a coin toss...it could have gone either way...

the conventional wisdom is, "you have to take the belt from the Champion..."

and thank GOD it went to Machida...I would have lost big tonight.

[thezzzone]

you are a ver lucky man,,he got his ass kicked,,,PERIOD!!!

[PinTheDonkey]

Yeah if you just looked at the fighters without even seeing the fight Machida looked much more beat up and tired. Shogun did a great job of out smarting Machida. Seem like Shogun used Machidas game plan against him with the neutralizing leg kicks and such. Lucky for those that bet on Machida though!

[PinTheDonkey]

PS - REMATCH in 5-6 months PLEASE!!!

[illmatick]

I thought shogun won but the fight was tough to score, I have seen much worse decisions in mma before

[vassman86]

Man, oh man...Shogun got absolutely robbed. This fight reminded me a lot of the Hamill/Bisping fight where Hamill got robbed of a decision victory. But this is far worse. I watched it at a friend's house and we all gave Shogun the decision [49-46, 49-46, 48-47, 49-46, all for Shogun]. Dana White definitely needs to give Shogun another title shot; Shogun outfought Lyoto for five rounds, and Machida knows damn well that he lost that fight.

[Kav]

didnt have money on the fight but i watched the whole UFC PPV tonight at a bar, and when everyone heard the results of machida winning THE WHOLE PLACE WENT NUTS! everyone was pissed off (shogun fans) and the machida fans were stunned and laughing about it cause they knew he lost too lol.

[thezzzone]

I didnt have any money on it either and am a machida fan,,but the fact is..he got his ASS KICKED...it would be a stretch to even give him 1 round yet alone 3...crazy

[shantystar]

you are right!

[flyingillini]

Shogun won the fight no doubt about it!

[shady610]

i missed it, but it sounded like a legitimate robbery of a decision. Usually on close fights someone will whine that they other person was robbed but this one sounds pretty unanimous.

If it was anything like the hamill/bisping fight, id say rua was robbed

[Pabinator]

Rua won, it was close but more like a draw than a Machida win. You guys have to remember Machida stunned him once or twice and gave him those knees that might had influenced the judges a bit.

Ive seen worse decisions, but doesnt mean this one was the right one. I hope they didnt follow that beat the champ logic I am hearing about, because if you won the fight means you beat the champ. Since when did it become I beat the hell out the champ to win the belt?

[BeDtimeHobby]

He didnt do enough to win, most of the time it was stand up fight but didnt do that much damage to impress the judges. But the score is pretty close and it could have gone either way.

[THE_LOCKSMITH]

Well Dana said therew will be a rematch, no date yet. What do you guys think the line on this fight will be? Will Shogun be the Fav????

[RobbReport]

it will probably be Machida -155 to -220 and whatever else for Shogun.

[Boddhissatva]

I'll bet on Machida again...

The fight was a lot closer than some people make it out to be...

Granted I bet on Machida so I'll admit a slight bias...but some people are calling it an "absolute robbery" or SHogun should have won all 5 rounds...

Bull$hit...

the fact is, with the exception of one round which I gave to Shogun clearly...

all the others could have been a coin toss...

I look forward to the rematch....

[THE_LOCKSMITH]

This fight looks like it might happen on the SuperBowl weekend card on Feb 6 2010. just over 3 months away. i wonder if Machidas legs will recover in time.

[brooks85]

i havent even seen the fight yet, still waiting for ufc on demand... usually the fights are up the next day but they are slacking

[Eccocide]

I've rewatched the fight twice and I still come to the same conclusion Shogun won. Rounds 4 and 5 should be without question to Shogun. I also think Shogun had round 1. Round 2 is a tossup and I gave a slight edge to Machida in round 3. So at worst it was 48-47 Shogun.

When 99% of the fighters, media outlets, writers, etc have one guy winning and it doesn't go that way, it has to be considered a bad decision. Shogun was the aggressor, did more damage and landed more strikes throughout all of the rounds.

Beating the champ BS is such a horrible unwritten rule. If a guy wins the fight he wins. Especially vs a guy like Machida. He is a patient counter-striker who waits to pounce. This "beat the champ" rule is tailor-made for him as he is most often back-pedalling or countering. So basically, someone will have to finish him to take the title because of his style. So you gotta be wreckless and go for the kill against a counter-striker...nice gameplan. This is one of the most painful carry-overs from boxing.

Anyways, I can't wait for the rematch. It was an amazing display of technical striking.

[illmatick]

I thought shogun won the fight by 1 round but I plan on pounding machida in the rematch if I can get anything less than -170

[keyboarding]

Originally Posted by Eccocide

Beating the champ BS is such a horrible unwritten rule. If a guy wins the fight he wins. Especially vs a guy like Machida. He is a patient counter-striker who waits to pounce. This "beat the champ" rule is tailor-made for him as he is most often back-pedalling or countering. So basically, someone will have to finish him to take the title because of his style. So you gotta be wreckless and go for the kill against a counter-striker...nice gameplan. This is one of the most painful carry-overs from boxing.

Well said.

[Pabinator]

I agree, that beat the champ stuff is stupid

[RobbReport]

i'm pounding Machida whatever the line will be. i just watched the fight again and it is pretty close but it definitely goes to Shogun. If you look at Herb Dean he was kind of disgusted with the decision and was ready to raise shoguns hand until Buffer called it.

[GoGoGadget]

Originally Posted by Boddhissatva

I'll bet on Machida again...

The fight was a lot closer than some people make it out to be...

Granted I bet on Machida so I'll admit a slight bias...but some people are calling it an "absolute robbery" or SHogun should have won all 5 rounds...

Bull$hit...

the fact is, with the exception of one round which I gave to Shogun clearly...

all the others could have been a coin toss...

I look forward to the rematch....

When I was watching it live I thought it was a huge robbery.

After rewatching it on mute it was way closer than I originally thought. Definitely could have went either way. Joe and Goldberg had a huge boner for the Rua leg kicks the whole fight, even if Machida got the best of the exchange all you would hear about was the vicious leg kick.

[Pabinator]

I agree, Machida also usually got him with a punch everytime he was kicked by Rua

[illmatick]

Originally Posted by GoGoGadget

When I was watching it live I thought it was a huge robbery.

After rewatching it on mute it was way closer than I originally thought. Definitely could have went either way. Joe and Goldberg had a huge boner for the Rua leg kicks the whole fight, even if Machida got the best of the exchange all you would hear about was the vicious leg kick.

spot on gadget, rogan had a huge influence on why so many people thought shogun was robbed

[RobbReport]

the crowd couldn't hear his commentary...

[illmatick]

[Eccocide]

80% of the writers, fans and media couldnt even hear his commentary as they were at the event (writers, media, websites, fans) or at bars (fans). Rogan's commentary may have affected a few watching it on PPV etc, but that has nothing to do with a majority.

[Eccocide]

And stolen from a Sherdog thread - If you think all of these ppl got it wrong or were affected by Joe Rogan's comments, then there is something seriously wrong with the MMA community and those that follow it:

This just in: Machida got 60 days out for injuries sustained. Shogun got none.
UFC 104 medical suspensions: Machida gets 60 days; Barry out for up to six months | MMAjunkie.com


First things first:

- The audience was largely in favor of Machida before the fight. After the decision was announced, the only thing you could hear was boos, boos and more boos.

- Rogan and Goldberg gave the fight to Shogun.




Dana White: "I thought Shogun won"

Link with video:
Dana White "I thought Shogun won the fight." [video]




MMA journalists and websites:

FightMetric: 49-47 Rua
CompuStrike: Rua outlanded Machida 89-50 in Total Strikes landed including 73 Leg Strikes landed. Rua dominated the fight and did just about everything he needed to do to beat the undefeated Machida, including outlanding Machida in every round, but apparently it wasn't enough for the judges.
Yahoo Sports / Cagewriter: 48-47 Rua
BloodyElbow : 48-47 Rua
USAToday: 48-47 Rua, 49-46 Rua
Savage Science: 49-46 Rua
ESPN / Jake Rossen: 49-46 or 48-47 Rua
MMA Fanhouse / Michael David Smith: 48-47 Rua
411mania.com: 48-47 Rua
CagePotato: 49-46 Rua
MMATorch : 48-47 Rua
MMAJunkie : 49-46 or 48-47 Rua
MMAMania : 50-45 Rua
5 Ounces of Pain : Rua (no score given)
Fightlinker : Rua (no score given)
MMAConvert: Rua ("Machida was given a gift")
ProMMA.Info: 50-45 Rua
Sherdog:
Jordan Breen -- 48-47 Rua
Brian Knapp -- 48-47 Rua
Mike Fridley -- 50-45 Rua
Sports Illustrated (thanks jamers):
Ben Fowlkes - Rua ("They say you have to clearly beat the champion if you want to take his belt. Mauricio "Shogun" Rua seemed to have done just that at UFC 104 on Saturday night, but the mere fact that UFC light heavyweight champ Lyoto Machida was still conscious at the end was apparently enough for the judges to give him the victory")
Joss Gross: 48-47 Rua
MMARising / Robert Sargeant (thanks TheEnigma): 49-46 Rua
FightLine: 49-46 Rua (thanks karatelarusso)
Loretta Hunt (thanks On Letting Go): Rua ("I am very disappointed in the decision. Very upsetting. The sport owes Mauricio "Shogun" Rua a big apology.")
TATAME (thanks Radamantis): "Maurício “Shogun” Rua was the underdog, but the 2005 Pride GP champion “surprised” everybody with a perfect strategy and performance, dominating three out of five rounds against Lyoto Machida, but losing by unanimous decision (48-47)."

credit: dystemper (thanks for compiling most of this list) and others for contributing (listed above)

Dystemper's original thread:
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f2/wha.../#post34126203




Pro fighters who thought Shogun won:

- Anthony Johnson (post-fight conference)
- Joe Stevenson (post-fight conference)
- Cain Velasquez (post-fight conference)
- Shane Carwin (via Twitter)
"great night of fights. further proof you have to finish as the judges just can't score MMA"
- Denis Kang (via Twitter)
"Shogun got robbed last night IMO."
- Efrain Escudero (via Twitter)
"I'm sorry but shogun won that fight easy"
- Kenny Florian (via Twitter)
"I love Machida but Shogun won that fight!!"
- Joe Lauzon (via Twitter)
"I think Shogun won it."
- Frank Trigg
"he [Shogun] got robbed, was looking 4 don king"
- Roy Nelson
"I just lost $5 on shogun, I am mad, shogun won 4 rounds to 1"
- Joe Doerkson
"Shogun won four rounds out of five ... I am disgusted."
- Brendan Schaub
"Shogun won that fight."
- Jorge Gurgel
"Wow. I was cheering for Machida, but believe Shogun just got robbed... That is the very worst feeling in the world."
- BJ Penn (via Facebook)
"Did Shogun win? yeah."
- Rampage Jackson (via his website)
"Shogun getting robbed like that was pretty cut throat"
- Jon Jones (via Twitter)
"Watched it again this morning and still just saying wow. I guess the next guy might just need to bring a sword"
- Ben Henderson (via Twitter)
"To me that was a bad decision. Rua was more active and the aggressor."
- Kit Cope (via Twitter)
"What?!?! That was the worst robbery I have seen in the UFC ever!!!"
- Jake Shields (via Twitter)
"Even though Shogun should have won that fight!"
- Miguel Torres (via Twitter)
"Shogun is back. Very impressed, Muay Thai 1, Karate 0."
- Cameron Dollar? (via Twitter)
"Man the ufc judging tonight was garbage"
- Jay Silva (via Twitter)
"Ufc 104 was okay rua won the fight but u all know u gotta bit the camp 2 be a champ, but wht about the rampage fight hmmmm"
- Matt Brown (via Twitter)
"Shogun def robbed, but after a 2nd watch it was closer than I thought at first. I gave Machida rd 1 & MAYBE rd 3. Just my two cents..."
- Tiki Ghosn (via Twitter)
"Karate doesn't work against Muay Thai"
- Frank Shamrock (via Twitter)
"Shogun won that fight"



Pro fighters who thought Machida won:

- Josh Thomson (via Twitter)
"Watch the dam fight again. Machida won 3rnds an shogun won the last 2."
- Anderson Silva (Machida's best friend)
"Lyoto won every round." (TATAME.com inteview)


(thanks to Aertz, JRide & karatelarusso for fighters)

I will add to this list as more pro fighters weigh in with their opinions




Fight Metric stats:


link: Machida-Shogun




CompuStrike stats / conclusion:


link: CompuStrike - Every Strike Counts




Sherdog forum poll:

link: **EVERYONE WHO THINKS SHOGUN WILL BEAT MACHIDA** sign names here




Sherdog.com poll:

link: www.sherdog.com



Two of the biggest sites in Brazil (polls)

[keyboarding]

Originally Posted by illmatick

spot on gadget, rogan had a huge influence on why so many people thought shogun was robbed