[mofome]

From Sickles
came out today:


Quote:
Evan Longoria, 3B, Grade A

David Price, LHP, Grade A

Jacob McGee, LHP, Grade A

Wade Davis, RHP, Grade B+

Reid Brignac, SS, Grade B+

Jeremy Hellickson, RHP, Grade B+

Desmond Jennings, OF, Grade B+

Jeff Niemann, RHP, Grade B

Eduardo Morlan, RHP, Grade B

John Jaso, C, Grade B

Ryan Royster, OF, Grade B-

Chris Mason, RHP, Grade B-

Nick Barnese, RHP, Grade B-

Mitch Talbot, RHP, Grade C+

Heath Rollins, RHP, Grade C+

Glenn Gibson, LHP, Grade C+

Fernando Perez, OF, Grade C+

James Houser, LHP, Grade C+

Justin Ruggiano, OF, Grade C+

Sergio Pedroza, OF, Grade C+

To put this in context, prior to today Sickels had rated 25 major league teams, and between all of them, they had a total of 4 Grade A prospects. Tampa has 3 by itself. 7 players of B+ or better also is the best in the majors.

wow

[5 star bomb]

That is a sick system... But I dont think there is a better farm system than the Braves. The Braves year in and year out pull guys from their farm that contribute

[mofome]

Originally Posted by 5 star bomb

That is a sick system... But I dont think there is a better farm system than the Braves. The Braves year in and year out pull guys from their farm that contribute

the current braves system vs the drays? come on now homie.
1) the drays right now are one of the best ive ever seen.
2) the drays just ate up a bit of their stock when they grabbed teix.

atl does it the right way and their model for success is the best, but they dont have the most talent. different arguments there, but both good imo.

[Willie Bee]

Which team is going to wind up being able to actually do the most with their farm system? It's hard for me to see Tampa competing anytime soon in the AL East, though I've been wrong before. Atlanta could win three of the next five NL East titles on the other hand.

[mofome]

Originally Posted by Willie Bee

Which team is going to wind up being able to actually do the most with their farm system? It's hard for me to see Tampa competing anytime soon in the AL East, though I've been wrong before. Atlanta could win three of the next five NL East titles on the other hand.

yeah, thats a bit different though.
1) atl wouldnt win the al east
2) atl is more committed to winning than tb

if you added nothing to tb, but kept the guys that have in their system now, my guess is they would be one of the top 4-5 teams in baseball in 7 years. that being said, craw, kaz, and those guys will likely be traded to restock the farm when they can no longer be afforded. great scouting in tb. i believe the scout most recognized with the name albert pujols was in tb a couple seasons back. i believe albert went in round 13? this guy had him as a top prospected.

[5 star bomb]

Originally Posted by mofome

the current braves system vs the drays? come on now homie.
1) the drays right now are one of the best ive ever seen.
2) the drays just ate up a bit of their stock when they grabbed teix.

atl does it the right way and their model for success is the best, but they dont have the most talent. different arguments there, but both good imo.

Its pretty simple really, im not saying right now they have more talent than the Drays in the farm but NOBODY develops and brings in better players than the Braves farm system. All of these guys below came up thru Braves system...

Steve Avery, Ron Gant, Tom Glavine, David Justice,Chipper Jones, Ryan Klesko,Javy Lopez,Rafael Furcal, Marcus Giles, Andruw Jones, Adam LaRoche , Adam Wainwright, Andy Marte, Jeff Francoeur, Brian McCann.... Just to name a few


NOT to mention....

They flipped Jarrod Saltalamacchia and 4 other prospects for slugger Mark Teixera. AND... got Tim Hudson with a package of Dan Meyer, Juan Cruz and Charles Thomas. AND... The kid they got from Detroit in exchange for Renteria looks like the real deal Jair Jurrjens



Braves have the best Farm System by far in the Majors. You dont run off 14 consecutive division championships or whatever it was without having the best farm system in the league

[Willie Bee]

I'm not buying into the argument that Atlanta wouldn't win the AL East. If that's the division they were in, they would've won it several times in the last 15+ seasons. And if Tampa Bay isn't committed ever winning their division, it really doesn't make any difference if their farm system is packed with eventual Hall of Famers. Talent means squat until you win with it.

[eidolon]

Athletics pitchers?

[mofome]

Originally Posted by 5 star bomb

Its pretty simple really, im not saying right now they have more talent than the Drays in the farm but NOBODY develops and brings in better players than the Braves farm system. All of these guys below came up thru Braves system...

Steve Avery, Ron Gant, Tom Glavine, David Justice,Chipper Jones, Ryan Klesko,Javy Lopez,Rafael Furcal, Marcus Giles, Andruw Jones, Adam LaRoche , Adam Wainwright, Andy Marte, Jeff Francoeur, Brian McCann.... Just to name a few


NOT to mention....

They flipped Jarrod Saltalamacchia and 4 other prospects for slugger Mark Teixera. AND... got Tim Hudson with a package of Dan Meyer, Juan Cruz and Charles Thomas. AND... The kid they got from Detroit in exchange for Renteria looks like the real deal Jair Jurrjens



Braves have the best Farm System by far in the Majors. You dont run off 14 consecutive division championships or whatever it was without having the best farm system in the league

not sure how many times i have to say that the braves have the best model for success....but you can keep saying the same thing in different words if you like.

[mofome]

Originally Posted by Willie Bee

I'm not buying into the argument that Atlanta wouldn't win the AL East. If that's the division they were in, they would've won it several times in the last 15+ seasons. And if Tampa Bay isn't committed ever winning their division, it really doesn't make any difference if their farm system is packed with eventual Hall of Famers. Talent means squat until you win with it.

you dont win with a farm system. their owner doesnt have much to do with their farm system. their farm system is the most talented, by far. the big league team isnt committed to winning. you say that it doesnt make any difference if the tb farm system is full of hall of famers. maybe in some threads it wouldnt, but in this one, it means everything. thats actually the point of the thread.

as for your point with atl, no one said anything about the past. your arguments are fine, but they dont make a lot of sense here. you said atl could win 3 of the next 5 nl east titles. i replied and said they wouldnt win the al east. you then fall back on the previous 15 years which no one was arguing about. if i had said atl wouldnt have won the al east in any of the last 15 years, then this:
I'm not buying into the argument that Atlanta wouldn't win the AL East. If that's the division they were in, they would've won it several times in the last 15+ seasons.
would make more sense. as it is, no one was arguing vs that.

[Louisvillekid1]

Sick

[Deuce]

I like the Mudhens myself. Couldnt find a Sickle review though.


www.mudhens.com

[Willie Bee]

Originally Posted by mofome

thats actually the point of the thread.

Sorry, saw the title and thought it was open for discussion. Didn't realize we weren't supposed to include thoughts of the bigger picture, which in this case includes the major league club. Guess my definition of what makes a farm system successful includes how it eventually translates to the big league club and wins. When 5-star commented about how the Braves pull guys out and win, and his thread etiquette wasn't mentioned, thought it was open to include that angle in the discussion.

[rays2009]

Originally Posted by mofome

that being said, craw, kaz, and those guys will likely be traded to restock the farm when they can no longer be afforded.

Things are different in Tampa these days. Andrew Friedman and the Organization sees the window of opportunity and is acting on it.

For example the team locked up Carlos Pena to 3 year deal today. Also this off-season they traded the top prospect in baseball of two seasons ago to fill holes at the major league level for this season. Not acquire more prospects.

They are a lock for 4th place in the AL east this season. The key hitters are already at the major league level, but they will be able to compete in the AL east when pitching prospects such as Price, Davis, and McGee start making an impact at the major league level.

[mofome]

Originally Posted by Willie Bee

Sorry, saw the title and thought it was open for discussion. Didn't realize we weren't supposed to include thoughts of the bigger picture, which in this case includes the major league club. Guess my definition of what makes a farm system successful includes how it eventually translates to the big league club and wins. When 5-star commented about how the Braves pull guys out and win, and his thread etiquette wasn't mentioned, thought it was open to include that angle in the discussion.

oh dear, i hadnt read this little tidbit yet. thats an adorable reply. the problem wasnt other things not being open for discussion, it was you blatantly changing your position mid-way through the conversation. what the braves would have done in the al east over the last 15 years, and what they would do in the next 3, are not correlated.

[mofome]

Originally Posted by rays2009

Things are different in Tampa these days. Andrew Friedman and the Organization sees the window of opportunity and is acting on it.

For example the team locked up Carlos Pena to 3 year deal today. Also this off-season they traded the top prospect in baseball of two seasons ago to fill holes at the major league level for this season. Not acquire more prospects.

They are a lock for 4th place in the AL east this season. The key hitters are already at the major league level, but they will be able to compete in the AL east when pitching prospects such as Price, Davis, and McGee start making an impact at the major league level.

How chuck tiffany doing these days?

[rays2009]

Originally Posted by mofome

How chuck tiffany doing these days?

Just as good as Dewon Brazelton. This isn't just one guy, the talent is overwhelming.

Tiffany might not be with the organization for much longer but you could give me Edwin Jackson's upside and Tiffany for Danys Baez and former all-star Lance Carter anyday.

[mofome]

Originally Posted by rays2009

Just as good as Dewon Brazelton. This isn't just one guy, the talent is overwhelming.

Tiffany might not be with the organization for much longer but you could give me Edwin Jackson's upside and Tiffany for Danys Baez and former all-star Lance Carter anyday.

Tiff used to be one of my fav prospects in the nl. thats why i asked.

[rays2009]

The organization has been pretty cautious with Tiffany after his rotator cuff surgery. He attempted a comeback in July but never pitched an inning for precautionary reasons. He did pitch in the instructional league this off-season. Hopefully he will be ready for 2008.

He wasn't added to the 40 man roster this off-season and he was eligible to be drafted in the rule 5 draft, but was not selected. I guess take that for what its worth.

[Willie Bee]

Originally Posted by mofome

oh dear, i hadnt read this little tidbit yet. thats an adorable reply. the problem wasnt other things not being open for discussion, it was you blatantly changing your position mid-way through the conversation. what the braves would have done in the al east over the last 15 years, and what they would do in the next 3, are not correlated.

You're right; the past is not always indicative of the future. However, I'd still bet the Braves could be more competitive in the AL East -- past, present and future -- than the Devil Rays. And I still find it difficult to think of a farm system in terms of success until they actually prove themselves in the majors.

[mofome]

Originally Posted by Willie Bee

You're right; the past is not always indicative of the future. However, I'd still bet the Braves could be more competitive in the AL East -- past, present and future -- than the Devil Rays. And I still find it difficult to think of a farm system in terms of success until they actually prove themselves in the majors.

Willie, i just hope we can move past our disagreements and be friends in the future. i would hate to see the drays farm system end a wonderful friendship. with that said, i do argee with each of your points, i just wasnt arguing with some of them. i should have worded the title a bi differently to better display the point i was trying to make.

impressive group of young talent. the season cant get here soon enough. you play any fantasy ball will?

[Willie Bee]

Mofo, some of my best friends and I disagree on night and day, so I can't imagine our debate on this being a deal breaker at all. Remember, I'm just a crotchety old fart who is very set in his half-century plus ways

I do play fantasy baseball. Been in one league a long, long time. In fact, we're making all of the arrangements to begin our 25th season together this year. Have had our drafts all over the map, coast to coast as the saying goes (San Diego, NYC, New Orleans, Denver, Chapel Hill NC, Nashville, Memphis and all over Texas). Love the game, and love the camaraderie of our group even more.

[mofome]

Originally Posted by Willie Bee

Mofo, some of my best friends and I disagree on night and day, so I can't imagine our debate on this being a deal breaker at all. Remember, I'm just a crotchety old fart who is very set in his half-century plus ways

I do play fantasy baseball. Been in one league a long, long time. In fact, we're making all of the arrangements to begin our 25th season together this year. Have had our drafts all over the map, coast to coast as the saying goes (San Diego, NYC, New Orleans, Denver, Chapel Hill NC, Nashville, Memphis and all over Texas). Love the game, and love the camaraderie of our group even more.

25 years? why wasnt i invited back then. i appreciate you not wanting to take money off a 2 year old, but it would have been nice to get an invite.


you guys run a keeper league? what kind of format do you have. a live drive, in person, sounds awesome man!! thats got to be a lot of fun.

[Checkerboard]

This is a big reason, no doubt, for the impressive Braves legacy.

[RJBucs]

all these posts and no on corrected you guys on the new team name... They are the Rays now sheesh! The rays are going to be VERY competitive in the next 5 years. For once they are going in the right direction.

[Cee]

I thought niemann would be atleast a B+ i guess it's since he's hurt often that he's a B?

[mofome]

Originally Posted by Cee

I thought niemann would be atleast a B+ i guess it's since he's hurt often that he's a B?

well i think sickles is typically a tough scout to impress greatly, but niemann is a guy that will start next season at 25 and allowed more hits than he had Ks in aaa last year. his size means its likely to take him more time to reach his potential, but hes not someone im real high on. when the Os were talking about deals with the rays, he wasnt a name i was ever hoping might be coming back.

[Cee]

Originally Posted by mofome

well i think sickles is typically a tough scout to impress greatly, but niemann is a guy that will start next season at 25 and allowed more hits than he had Ks in aaa last year. his size means its likely to take him more time to reach his potential, but hes not someone im real high on. when the Os were talking about deals with the rays, he wasnt a name i was ever hoping might be coming back.

Remember when i told mo about david price in fantasy bases last year

[d ray]

don't forget matt garza, who's going to be a stud pitcher imo. traded from Minny.